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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Lyxen" data-source="post: 8386224" data-attributes="member: 7032025">And the people who argue are the ones who would like all these games to be closer to the playstyle what they like, what a coincidence !Look, no one is forbidding you to play any game the way you want, it's a private game between your friends and you, but I find it really astounding that people still continue to argue that the game was designed one way when not only the words of the designers, but the actual design tell you otherwise. For example, the choice of natural language or 5e clearly tells you that the intent is not to have ruleslawyering, because you will never be able to have exact definition of terms , every time it's been tried on forums, it degenerates as to which dictionary to use, which is really ridiculous. The fact that the designers tell you, up front that rules do not matter and that a DM is expected to make many rulings during a game shows you that creating builds based on rules is futile, because the rules are not precise enough and can in any case be changed at a whim's notice by the DM. So in the end we get these ridiculous claims by powergamers that a DM mandatorily should post in advance all rules modification that they intend to put in effect in their game, because otherwise it will destroy everything that they have tried to hard to build. And all these posts of people threatening to leave games because "a bad DM has betrayed them".Again, if it is the way these people want to play the game, and they enjoy it, all the better for them, but I find it really silly to pretend that the design of the game supports this, it clearly does not, unless you in effect redesign it by adding tons of additional definitions and local rules, that you have to verify when you play with a new table, otherwise your build will not function to your satisfaction and you might lose DPR (god forbid !).It's not "distinct", it's precisely what is described in the PH. The very fact that you deem it "distinct" is telling !Really ? You have statistics ?Then I must say that I'm a bit lost about the kind of game that you are playing...Once more, it's about the intention. My intention is to tell stories, and a good (epic) story does not exist without character progression (read Joseph Campbell). But when the whole game is about technical elements of the game (and again, when the designers themselves tell you that these are only tools to tell stories), it becomes a playstyle.To be honest, I mostly find the condescension going the other way, about the best players being the ones that have the best characters, and that is from a technical perspective. You will find a lot of these including in this thread, but I think you will be hard pressed to find me saying the reverse, and this, although I happen to like this from the designers: "To play D&D, and to play it well, you don’t need to read all the rules, memorize every detail of the game, or master the fine art of rolling funny looking dice. None of those things have any bearing on what’s best about the game."So, clearly, the best characters and the best games, from THEIR perspective, are not about reading the technical rules (which you insist reveal the "hidden" design of the game"), memorising them and building something from them.Again, play the way you want, but don't insist that it has to be a technical game about levelling because there are levels in the rules.</blockquote>

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