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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 8386500" data-attributes="member: 6801228">And again, it isn't unrealistic, it is an abstraction. Heck, you are fine with it if it does happen just because it was random chance, so you recognize that random chance could give rise to people with nearly identical qualities. Therefore, it can't be unrealistic.Right, you will only play with people who have fun the way you think is fun. And don't go turning this into some extreme hyperbole of mecha or something like this, we are literally talking about just taking a set array of stats instead of rolling for them. This isn't something most people even notice, let alone make a unflinching rule about.No, the "anecdotal evidence to point to a larger pattern" defense. Do you not see how someone who absolutely refuses to yield on something as simple as taking the standard array instead of rolling, which is statistically the weaker option between the two, simply because he finds the array "unrealisitic" can be easily seen as someone who won't budge on anything? You are dictating how my character must be, from session zero. I know you always say how wonderful and kind you are as a DM, and how you are always willing to work with people, but any time it comes for you to actually work with people on something that you dislike, you immediately start posting in the most unyeilding positions. Either the players fall in line, or they leave, because you won't compromise your fun for their sake, no matter what. You refuse to compromise... and then when we point this out, you wave your hands and say "nononono, I compromise all the time, just not on THAT." For whichever "that" we happen to be discussing.See, right here. This immediately turns into your fun. Dude, it is six numbers on a sheet you never have to look at, arranged in one of 720 different ways. Why is your fun impacted by this? Is your fun impacted if people name their elf "Dave"? Do we have to approve hairstyles for our characters or risk ruining your fun? Whether they roll or take the standard array should not matter to your fun, I can't even comprehend how this became a big enough thing to become a standard rule for you. After session 0, I largely forget what my players stat arrays are. I'll take done some vital numbers, but largely it doesn't change anything for how I run. And I don't think it should.So? I guess if a player came to you and wanted to use it, you would say they can't? Because you dislike it and how dare this player try and ruin your fun by doing something you don't like.Listed three different averages, across three different professions, the fact you refuse evidence that isn't me showing real life populations measured by DnD statistics isn't my problem.The game does not assume rolling, and even if it did, the chance of rolling at least a 15 on 4d6d1 at least once in six rolls is 79.40% as previously shown. With basically an 80% accuracy, the game can certainly make the assumption that you have at least a 15 before choosing your race.I guess you are forgetting where I showed that to accurately portray an elephants IRL strength, they would need a strength of around 116? And of course we know Rocs pick up elephants and carry them off, so they have to be stronger, and the Tarrassque is likely even stronger. 200 was a low ball.  Additionally, DnD is very bad at accounting for scale instead of a linear curve, so most insects that would only be able to move a few ounces of material would be incredibly low strength, certainly far below 1 which allows them to drag 30 lbs. Or, you were commenting on half of my post without reading the rest of the multiple paragraphs.And this just proves you aren't following what I'm saying. Sure, the difference between 14 and 20 is a difference of 6 points, or 180 lbs. That is fairly significant. But IRL humans can have their strength limits measured in a single pound of difference, or for DnD terms a 1/30th of a point (0.033). So, the nuances of real world strength (like a difference between someone who has a 14 strength and a 14.033 strength) are lost when the smallest unit is a single point representing 30 lbs of force.No, I'm arguing that a real life person might go through training and get a strength of 14.066 and another might go through it and end up with a strength of 14.264. One of these people is actually signigicantly stronger than the other one (a difference of 8 lbs of force) but DnD lists them both as 14. Because until you can lift 30 more pounds of force, it doesn't count. The game says these values are identical, because measuring real-world minor variations in strength doesn't matter.If you are adamant about it we can try and make it work, depends on what race you have, what kind of backstory you are okay with, and where your archetype is going. But in general? No, in general all fighters need to have gone through some training.No, you said Racial Traits, of which ASIs are only one part. So, there is nothing that prevents racial ASIs from being learned through training, just like every other ability score bonus, and the "real" values you developed from birth til first level. After all, we both agree you weren't born with a 16 strength and 14 Intelligence, so you had to be gaining those numbers later, which would include the Racial ASI</blockquote>

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