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<blockquote data-quote="Maxperson" data-source="post: 8388061" data-attributes="member: 23751">You don't get to attach relevance to my point where none exists.&nbsp; I'm not comparing justifications.&nbsp; Period.&nbsp; Those have no bearing on my point.&nbsp; Period.That's true, but also not relevant to my point.&nbsp; Both are in fact similarly restrictive.&nbsp; Period.&nbsp; The why is not relevant to that similarity.If it has no impact on thematic element of the game, that includes character creation.&nbsp; The player has no right to assume any rule in the game is going to be present.&nbsp; None.&nbsp; Even the PHB tells the player to find out from the DM if there have been any changes made.&nbsp; This is a pure player entitlement argument that you are making.They can get significantly more than 90% accurate by simply balancing around +2.I'll make this easy on you.&nbsp; Find ANY profitable major company that has said this and show me the quote.&nbsp; I'm not even going to ask you to have it be WotC. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />They aren't leaving those 10% out to dry any more than someone who doesn't like chicken is being left out to dry by chicken companies.&nbsp; Being left out to dry means people who are actually customers being screwed over by the company.I don't need to prove that 2=5 or even that 3=4.&nbsp; I just have to understand that while there is variance, the game is okay with it.&nbsp; It's not unbalancing to have a 20 at level 1.................................or they would have made rules preventing a 20 at level 1 instead of including it as a default method for generating stats.There's no way to figure out which of the billion sperm is going to make it to the egg.&nbsp; It's not the strongest.&nbsp; That one might randomly be in the back.&nbsp; It's strongest one that's randomly the closest.&nbsp; The combination of genetics that come from the sperm and the egg is pretty random. Outside of identical twins, you won't see identical siblings. There's a lot of random involved.Yes.&nbsp; I agree.&nbsp; One being random is proof enough that they cannot be equivalent.&nbsp; And you do realize that point buy can buy the array, right? That with the minimum of 8 in a stat, point buy is closer to being the same as the array than rolling is? Not that it's equal, either.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Maxperson, post: 8388061, member: 23751"] You don't get to attach relevance to my point where none exists. I'm not comparing justifications. Period. Those have no bearing on my point. Period. That's true, but also not relevant to my point. Both are in fact similarly restrictive. Period. The why is not relevant to that similarity. If it has no impact on thematic element of the game, that includes character creation. The player has no right to assume any rule in the game is going to be present. None. Even the PHB tells the player to find out from the DM if there have been any changes made. This is a pure player entitlement argument that you are making. They can get significantly more than 90% accurate by simply balancing around +2. I'll make this easy on you. Find ANY profitable major company that has said this and show me the quote. I'm not even going to ask you to have it be WotC. :) They aren't leaving those 10% out to dry any more than someone who doesn't like chicken is being left out to dry by chicken companies. Being left out to dry means people who are actually customers being screwed over by the company. I don't need to prove that 2=5 or even that 3=4. I just have to understand that while there is variance, the game is okay with it. It's not unbalancing to have a 20 at level 1.................................or they would have made rules preventing a 20 at level 1 instead of including it as a default method for generating stats. There's no way to figure out which of the billion sperm is going to make it to the egg. It's not the strongest. That one might randomly be in the back. It's strongest one that's randomly the closest. The combination of genetics that come from the sperm and the egg is pretty random. Outside of identical twins, you won't see identical siblings. There's a lot of random involved. Yes. I agree. One being random is proof enough that they cannot be equivalent. And you do realize that point buy can buy the array, right? That with the minimum of 8 in a stat, point buy is closer to being the same as the array than rolling is? Not that it's equal, either. [/QUOTE]

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