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Ability Score Rebalancing
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<blockquote data-quote="Xeviat" data-source="post: 7624522" data-attributes="member: 57494"><p>I'd like to discuss ability scorebalance, and what could be done to bring them closer together. AllAbilities grant Ability Checks and Saving Throws; balancing these isa separate discussion. Almost all abilities grant +to hit/damage/DCsfor, so the balance of these will not be considered, as mostcharacters are going to put their highest stat in their class'sattack stat; class attack stat kind of just forces certain classes tocertain things. I may look at coupling this with changes to spellsand monsters to utilize all saving throws a bit more, instead ofhaving common and uncommon saves (this is a separate discussion,though to preview I'm thinking about dynamic saves where you get tochoose between two ability score to save with which could change theeffect).</p><p></p><p></p><p>First, how does 5E define the abilityscores, and what do they do other than attack, checks, and saves?</p><p></p><p></p><p>Strength: Measures physical power</p><p>Dexterity: Measures agility</p><p>Constitution: Measures endurance</p><p>Intelligence: Measures reasoning andmemory</p><p>Wisdom: Measures perception and insight</p><p>Charisma: Measures force of personality</p><p></p><p></p><p>Strength</p><p></p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Carrying Capacity<br /> </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Jump Distance<br /> </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Heavy Armor allowance</li> </ul><p></p><p></p><p>Dexterity</p><p></p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">AC (limited by medium and heavy armor)<br /> </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Initiative (this is really just a kind of Dex check)</li> </ul><p></p><p></p><p>Constution</p><p></p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Hit Points and Hit Dice rolls<br /> </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Length of time to hold breath</li> </ul><p></p><p></p><p>Intelligence</p><p></p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">?</li> </ul><p></p><p></p><p>Wisdom</p><p></p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">?</li> </ul><p></p><p></p><p>Charisma</p><p></p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">?</li> </ul><p></p><p></p><p>+2 to an ability score is worth a feat.For most characters, though, +2 to an ability score is only reallyworthwhile for their class's Attack stat, their class's potentialsecondary stat, and Constution; light or no armor characters may alsofavor Dex because of the importance of Dex saves.</p><p></p><p></p><p>+2 to an ability score bundles togetherit's potential attack/damage/dc increases, along with saves, checks,and its fixed benefits. Lets pretend all skills checks and saves areequal for a second (which is a separate, but related, discussion).</p><p></p><p></p><p>Toughness is considered an okay feat.It gives +2 hp/level, double part of Constitution's core function. +2Con is +1 hp/level, +1 con checks, +1 con saves, and +1 to a fewrandom things (like length of time to hold breath).</p><p></p><p></p><p>Alert is a feat that grants +5 toinitiative (a very specific use of Dex checks), and grants protectionfrom surprise and some advantage. Both sides of those seem even tome.</p><p></p><p></p><p>So, I'd like to add some non savingthrow/check/spell-casting functions to Int, Wis, and Cha. </p><p></p><p></p><p>Intelligence is easy. I think it shouldgrant skill proficiencies and possibly languages. 1 feat grants 3skill proficiencies, or +1 Int, 3 languages, and the ability to writeciphers; languages are clearly valued less than skill proficienciesin this regard. Perhaps 1 skill proficiency and 1 language perIntelligence modifier? Going by the “Toughness is a fair feat”angle, if 3 skill/tool proficiencies is worth a feat and 4 languages(lets count cyphers as a secret language) is worth half a feat … ifa full feat is worth 2 points, then a skill/tool proficiency is worth0.66 points and a language is worth 0.25. Together, those are worth0.91 … or close enough to 1 for me to not complain. (Interestingly,backgrounds value tool proficiencies and languages the same).</p><p></p><p></p><p>But what should Wisdom do? What arethings wise characters should be better at than unwise characters?Things that aren't checks or saves. What is tied to thisarchetype/trope? Perhaps the ubiquity of Perception/PassivePerception checks is what Wisdom does, but I don't like that and Ifind that to be more of an argument of making some functions ofPerception part of Wisdom saves. If I was constantly running horrorgames, I'd have Sanity tied to Wisdom, but I don't think that's rightfor all D&D games.</p><p></p><p></p><p>What about Charisma? Part of me feelslike Inspiration might be the right angle here. The charasmaticcharacters often come across as lucky characters. I'd consider givingcharacters Cha mod+1 inspiration points per long rest. I may alsoretool the lucky feat.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Now, most characters currently probablyhave between an 8 and a 12 intelligence. Looking at past charactersat my table, 8 and 10 was very common for people not playing aWizard, Eldritch Knight, or Arcane Trickster. So, most characterswould end up with the same amount of skills they currently have, orat least be disincentivized from taking an 8 Intelligence.</p><p></p><p></p><p>But, this does mean the Wizard would begetting +3 skill proficiencies, and Eldritch Knights and ArcaneTricksters would be picking up 1 or 2 more. These would grow withlevel as stats were increased. As I've spoken about in anotherthread, I want to expand what skills can do so non-casters feel moreversatile, and part of that would be requiring spellcasters to haveskills that functionally do nothing other than facilitatespell-casting. 3E's spellcraft and concentration skills sort ofworked this way. So I'll be thinking about doing this very thing.</p><p></p><p></p><p>What are your thoughts? Mostimportantly, what might you add to Wisdom?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Xeviat, post: 7624522, member: 57494"] I'd like to discuss ability scorebalance, and what could be done to bring them closer together. AllAbilities grant Ability Checks and Saving Throws; balancing these isa separate discussion. Almost all abilities grant +to hit/damage/DCsfor, so the balance of these will not be considered, as mostcharacters are going to put their highest stat in their class'sattack stat; class attack stat kind of just forces certain classes tocertain things. I may look at coupling this with changes to spellsand monsters to utilize all saving throws a bit more, instead ofhaving common and uncommon saves (this is a separate discussion,though to preview I'm thinking about dynamic saves where you get tochoose between two ability score to save with which could change theeffect). First, how does 5E define the abilityscores, and what do they do other than attack, checks, and saves? Strength: Measures physical power Dexterity: Measures agility Constitution: Measures endurance Intelligence: Measures reasoning andmemory Wisdom: Measures perception and insight Charisma: Measures force of personality Strength [LIST] [*]Carrying Capacity [*]Jump Distance [*]Heavy Armor allowance [/LIST] Dexterity [LIST] [*]AC (limited by medium and heavy armor) [*]Initiative (this is really just a kind of Dex check) [/LIST] Constution [LIST] [*]Hit Points and Hit Dice rolls [*]Length of time to hold breath [/LIST] Intelligence [LIST] [*]? [/LIST] Wisdom [LIST] [*]? [/LIST] Charisma [LIST] [*]? [/LIST] +2 to an ability score is worth a feat.For most characters, though, +2 to an ability score is only reallyworthwhile for their class's Attack stat, their class's potentialsecondary stat, and Constution; light or no armor characters may alsofavor Dex because of the importance of Dex saves. +2 to an ability score bundles togetherit's potential attack/damage/dc increases, along with saves, checks,and its fixed benefits. Lets pretend all skills checks and saves areequal for a second (which is a separate, but related, discussion). Toughness is considered an okay feat.It gives +2 hp/level, double part of Constitution's core function. +2Con is +1 hp/level, +1 con checks, +1 con saves, and +1 to a fewrandom things (like length of time to hold breath). Alert is a feat that grants +5 toinitiative (a very specific use of Dex checks), and grants protectionfrom surprise and some advantage. Both sides of those seem even tome. So, I'd like to add some non savingthrow/check/spell-casting functions to Int, Wis, and Cha. Intelligence is easy. I think it shouldgrant skill proficiencies and possibly languages. 1 feat grants 3skill proficiencies, or +1 Int, 3 languages, and the ability to writeciphers; languages are clearly valued less than skill proficienciesin this regard. Perhaps 1 skill proficiency and 1 language perIntelligence modifier? Going by the “Toughness is a fair feat”angle, if 3 skill/tool proficiencies is worth a feat and 4 languages(lets count cyphers as a secret language) is worth half a feat … ifa full feat is worth 2 points, then a skill/tool proficiency is worth0.66 points and a language is worth 0.25. Together, those are worth0.91 … or close enough to 1 for me to not complain. (Interestingly,backgrounds value tool proficiencies and languages the same). But what should Wisdom do? What arethings wise characters should be better at than unwise characters?Things that aren't checks or saves. What is tied to thisarchetype/trope? Perhaps the ubiquity of Perception/PassivePerception checks is what Wisdom does, but I don't like that and Ifind that to be more of an argument of making some functions ofPerception part of Wisdom saves. If I was constantly running horrorgames, I'd have Sanity tied to Wisdom, but I don't think that's rightfor all D&D games. What about Charisma? Part of me feelslike Inspiration might be the right angle here. The charasmaticcharacters often come across as lucky characters. I'd consider givingcharacters Cha mod+1 inspiration points per long rest. I may alsoretool the lucky feat. Now, most characters currently probablyhave between an 8 and a 12 intelligence. Looking at past charactersat my table, 8 and 10 was very common for people not playing aWizard, Eldritch Knight, or Arcane Trickster. So, most characterswould end up with the same amount of skills they currently have, orat least be disincentivized from taking an 8 Intelligence. But, this does mean the Wizard would begetting +3 skill proficiencies, and Eldritch Knights and ArcaneTricksters would be picking up 1 or 2 more. These would grow withlevel as stats were increased. As I've spoken about in anotherthread, I want to expand what skills can do so non-casters feel moreversatile, and part of that would be requiring spellcasters to haveskills that functionally do nothing other than facilitatespell-casting. 3E's spellcraft and concentration skills sort ofworked this way. So I'll be thinking about doing this very thing. What are your thoughts? Mostimportantly, what might you add to Wisdom? [/QUOTE]
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