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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Gradine" data-source="post: 6348566" data-attributes="member: 57112">A 5th level fighter with a greatsword and 20 str, in 10 rounds, is going to hit AC 16 an average of 13 times, for 2d6+5. That's an average of 12.5, multiplied by 1.3 gets you to 13.8 damage per round. Assuming 2 crits (on 19 & 20), add 15 damage total, or 1.5 per round, to 15.3 DPR. Great Weapon Master, assuming the math doesn't change on it when the actual PHB comes out, effectively doubles damage for five fewer hits over that span (3 fewer, assuming two crits and ensuing bonus attacks from the feat). So, that comes out to; 25 x 1 +1.5 (bonus from two crits) = 26.5.Same fighter with 16 str is hitting same AC 11 times, or 7 for double damage.2d6+3, average is 10.5, multiplied by 1.1 gets an average of 11.55. With 2 crits, that bumps to 13.05.Under the same assumptions using GWM, we get: 21 x .8 +1.5 = 18.326.5 over 18.3 gives an actually pretty impressive 45% difference in damage over ten rounds, proving your own point with actual math way better than with pulling numbers out of nowhere and slinging insults. There are a few issues with this, however.<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">It assumes the continued presence, with no tweaks, of a feat we know exists but don't know if it exists in the same form.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Great Weapon Fighting improves both numbers. It should do so in equal measure, because it effects dice and not bonuses to damage, but favors the higher strength slightly simply due to hitting two more times. It certainly doesn't give the 20 str fighter an extra 3.94 DPR but the 16 str fighter only an extra 1.04 DPR though. Nice try though.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The bulk of the difference comes from being able to hit more often, not from the 2 (or 4) more points of damage each hit. A 4 point difference in Strength has always, in every past WOTC-produced edition, accounted for a 10% greater chance of hitting. In the (not unheard) circumstance where both of the above fighters hit 9 times out of 20 swings, even with the feat we don't know exists yet, the difference is only 17%, which is significant but not nearly as staggering. The issue here is how these differences in Strength stack up to past editions. The impact on hit percentage is even, and I would suspect that the impact on damage is actually lower than in, say 3.5. ESPECIALLY with a two-handed weapon fighter, who's getting 1.5 str modifier to damage, and getting that modifier multiplied in crits. It's late and I'm tired, but I'd be interested in seeing the same math with two 3.5 fighters of equal everything but Str (we'll say level 6, to account for the extra attack), power attacking at -5 BAB with every swing. I'm prepared to eat crow if I'm wrong. I was certainly surprised by my results above, so who knows.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Oh, and show your work. And leave the ad hominems at home.</li> </ul></blockquote>

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