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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Tormyr" data-source="post: 6349259" data-attributes="member: 6776887">That is what I thought was the case.  Between that and the Age of Worms conversion I am doing, I can see where the concept of a "treadmill" comes in.  The numbers just keep going up, and a lower level character has no chance of doing stuff at later levels or if they are untrained.  Some of the History checks go up to DC 35.  I am assuming that would be possible for some characters but probably none at level 1 (unless you can find the 35 on the d20).  In 5e, a character with expertise in History at level 20 could attain a 30 with a really good roll, but that is about it.In 5e, even a low level character gets a minimum of +2 in a proficient weapon, and most CR1/4 characters get a +4 to hit.  So they have roughly a 20% chance (or maybe even 25% chance) to hit most high level characters.  I think the bounded accuracy is evidence of getting off the ability score treadmill.  There is still the possibility of low level characters contributing at a higher level even if the chance is a little bit lower.Using the example from the History check, a hard DC20 check would need a 20 die roll from an untrained character with no Int bonus even if they were level 20. A level 1 character trained in History with a +3 to Int would need a 15 while the same character at level 20 with a +5 Int modifier would only need a 9.  That it is still reasonably possible for a trained level 1 character and only about twice as easy for a maxed out character coupled with the absence of really high DC and AC values makes me feel that the "treadmill" has gone away.</blockquote>

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