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<blockquote data-quote="Hautamaki" data-source="post: 5923841" data-attributes="member: 42219">Seems like a very minor benefit, for two reasons.1) It's very DM-dependent.&nbsp; It's almost entirely up to the DM to make sure this ability sees any use.&nbsp; This is as opposed to something like an improved ability score (how on Earth is any DM going to run a game in which your Strength Score for example never comes into play) or even something like magical or poison resistance which Dwarves traditionally have.&nbsp; Your chances of fighting a magic or poison using enemy seem to me much greater than your chances of the DM employing a specifically labrynthine dungeon with moving walls and deceptively sloping passageways.2) Suppose the DM does design or employ a labyrinth type dungeon just so that the dwarf player has a chance to shine.&nbsp; Great.&nbsp; But unfortunately on the way to the dungeon the party is ambushed by Wandering Monsters and 3 ridiculous rolls in a row later, the dwarf is dead and the dwarf player decides to play an elf this time for his new character.&nbsp; Now the party is dwarf-less for the labyrinth.&nbsp; Now what?&nbsp; The party gets hopelessly lost and gets TPK'd due to starvation?&nbsp; Or they just cannot advance at all?&nbsp; Or the DM allows the party to somehow compensate for not having a dwarf in their party and so the actual fact is that the party never needed a dwarf in the first place so the dwarf's special ability is actually totally superfluous.#2 actually sounds a lot like my objection to rogues as skill-monkeys, or wizard utility spells, or whatever.&nbsp; Abilities that are required for the plot to be advanced are actually useless, because it's not like the DM is simply going to rule that the plot does not advance if the party does not have access to those abilities for whatever reason.&nbsp; These sorts of abilities require a very clever DM to specially design things so that the player can get some use out of them if they have them, but that the plot can advance as normal even if the party does not have those abilities.&nbsp; So in the very best case scenario, these sorts of abilities put quite a lot of pressure on the DM which is not exactly ideal imo.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Hautamaki, post: 5923841, member: 42219"] Seems like a very minor benefit, for two reasons. 1) It's very DM-dependent. It's almost entirely up to the DM to make sure this ability sees any use. This is as opposed to something like an improved ability score (how on Earth is any DM going to run a game in which your Strength Score for example never comes into play) or even something like magical or poison resistance which Dwarves traditionally have. Your chances of fighting a magic or poison using enemy seem to me much greater than your chances of the DM employing a specifically labrynthine dungeon with moving walls and deceptively sloping passageways. 2) Suppose the DM does design or employ a labyrinth type dungeon just so that the dwarf player has a chance to shine. Great. But unfortunately on the way to the dungeon the party is ambushed by Wandering Monsters and 3 ridiculous rolls in a row later, the dwarf is dead and the dwarf player decides to play an elf this time for his new character. Now the party is dwarf-less for the labyrinth. Now what? The party gets hopelessly lost and gets TPK'd due to starvation? Or they just cannot advance at all? Or the DM allows the party to somehow compensate for not having a dwarf in their party and so the actual fact is that the party never needed a dwarf in the first place so the dwarf's special ability is actually totally superfluous. #2 actually sounds a lot like my objection to rogues as skill-monkeys, or wizard utility spells, or whatever. Abilities that are required for the plot to be advanced are actually useless, because it's not like the DM is simply going to rule that the plot does not advance if the party does not have access to those abilities for whatever reason. These sorts of abilities require a very clever DM to specially design things so that the player can get some use out of them if they have them, but that the plot can advance as normal even if the party does not have those abilities. So in the very best case scenario, these sorts of abilities put quite a lot of pressure on the DM which is not exactly ideal imo. [/QUOTE]

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