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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Technik4" data-source="post: 2178219" data-attributes="member: 7211"><Cringe> Is that why the DM's job is? I thought we were all supposed to have fun...Thats just it though. I consider people with low charisma to be anti-social people, in one way or another. As a DM, I can't roleplay the PCs charisma, I can only react to it. And we are talking about PCs with a charisma maybe a point or 2 below average (so, for a benchmark anywhere between 8-10).  You either have to assume that EVERYONE they meet in social settings has above average charisma (doesnt make sense) or create all these (imo) inplausible 'hatreds' towards some people for dumping Cha. I don't blame people for dumping charisma because if you aren't going to be a social PC, you dont need it. That isn't my fault as a DM (and yes I could create some 'roleplaying' to hinder such characters), it is a fault of the system. If you aren't a bard, cleric, paladin, or sorcerer and you don't want to pick up social skills - Charisma makes the most sense as a dump stat. And, besides cleric, those are some of the rarest PCs I see...Personally, I like social skills. I usually dump Con over Cha because Im fairly confident of my knowledge of combat rules to play accurately (fleeing when a character would flee, flanking, tumbling, etc). I don't think its fair to penalize a quiet PC who wants to play a quiet asocial character. No they won't ever get land or titles, but then, they don't want that stuff.I hope that made some sense as to the frustration with Charisma as an ability score I have.TechnikBG: I like the idea of combining Wis + Cha for Will saves. The problem with switching Will saves to Cha is that wisdom becomes the new charisma.Damage - StrThAC0 - Str or DexAC - DexInitiative - DexReflex - DexHp - ConFort - ConSkills - IntWill - WisAnd all the ability scores reflect in skills and ability checks. An interesting thing to do in 4e (or another revision) would be to increase the rate of feat acquisition based on Wis. Then you could slide Will saving throws to Charisma and each ability would mean something to every character. As someone else said, sliding Wis to initiative wouldnt be a terrible idea either (maybe give one class like Rogue the ability to use Dex instead of Wis).</blockquote>

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