Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Ability scores - How intrinsic are they to D&D?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="am181d" data-source="post: 5718795" data-attributes="member: 3576"><p>My perspective is that the creators of D&D sort of stumbled into ideas that weren't originally well thought out or well formed initially. The subsequent editions have done a good job of finding the core of those ideas. </p><p></p><p>An obvious example: they didn't work out the difference between a race and a class until AD&D. This is less a rules INVENTION in AD&D than taking something that was half-formed in Basic and better realizing it. Another example: The 1d20 + mod vs. DC mechanic, which I feel has always sort of been waiting there to be found. A third: reversing AC from 10 to -10 to 10+ is an example of a change that took pre-exisitng mechanics and switched them around to make them work in a cleaner, more useful way. A fourth: replacing the arbitrary PPDM, etc. saves with F/R/W. The list goes on...</p><p></p><p>Ultimately, there's still room to grow. For instance, it seems to me like ability bonuses and F/R/W save bonuses take up more or less the same space. And ability bonuses and BAB take up more or less the same space. I'd be open to removing those concepts (F/R/W, BAB) and replacing them with straight ability bonuses or ability bonus boosts.</p><p></p><p>I'd also be open to replacing the 3 to 18 with range with straight bonuses, although I think there's something to the Star Wars approach of Wounds + Vitality that sort of hinges on a Con in the 10-20 range.</p><p></p><p>And this is my most radical thought: I'm not sure that the six ability scores are actually broken out correctly. Str/Dex/Con makes sense, but it seems like Int/Wis/Cha have too much overlap, particularly as they've been fleshed out in later editions. I'd be all for replacing those three stats with Knowledge/Observation/Personality or something like that, so that those distinctions are more clear.</p><p></p><p>I would be opposed to completely changing the central mechanics of Dungeons & Dragons, but I'm all for evolving them closer to their Platonic ideal, and I feel like we have a long way to go in that regard. To the extent that I am uncomfortable with some of the changes in 4e, it's that I feel like a lot of the changes that were made *weren't* refinements, but in fact were changing the style of play into something that was less true to the game's roots...</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="am181d, post: 5718795, member: 3576"] My perspective is that the creators of D&D sort of stumbled into ideas that weren't originally well thought out or well formed initially. The subsequent editions have done a good job of finding the core of those ideas. An obvious example: they didn't work out the difference between a race and a class until AD&D. This is less a rules INVENTION in AD&D than taking something that was half-formed in Basic and better realizing it. Another example: The 1d20 + mod vs. DC mechanic, which I feel has always sort of been waiting there to be found. A third: reversing AC from 10 to -10 to 10+ is an example of a change that took pre-exisitng mechanics and switched them around to make them work in a cleaner, more useful way. A fourth: replacing the arbitrary PPDM, etc. saves with F/R/W. The list goes on... Ultimately, there's still room to grow. For instance, it seems to me like ability bonuses and F/R/W save bonuses take up more or less the same space. And ability bonuses and BAB take up more or less the same space. I'd be open to removing those concepts (F/R/W, BAB) and replacing them with straight ability bonuses or ability bonus boosts. I'd also be open to replacing the 3 to 18 with range with straight bonuses, although I think there's something to the Star Wars approach of Wounds + Vitality that sort of hinges on a Con in the 10-20 range. And this is my most radical thought: I'm not sure that the six ability scores are actually broken out correctly. Str/Dex/Con makes sense, but it seems like Int/Wis/Cha have too much overlap, particularly as they've been fleshed out in later editions. I'd be all for replacing those three stats with Knowledge/Observation/Personality or something like that, so that those distinctions are more clear. I would be opposed to completely changing the central mechanics of Dungeons & Dragons, but I'm all for evolving them closer to their Platonic ideal, and I feel like we have a long way to go in that regard. To the extent that I am uncomfortable with some of the changes in 4e, it's that I feel like a lot of the changes that were made *weren't* refinements, but in fact were changing the style of play into something that was less true to the game's roots... [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Ability scores - How intrinsic are they to D&D?
Top