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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Fanaelialae" data-source="post: 5722546" data-attributes="member: 53980">Thanks for clarifying my point [MENTION=1645]mmadsen[/MENTION]!It is demonstrably true as long as you don't try adding corner-cases.  I'm talking about a straight-up sword fight, which is hardly an unreasonable scenario.  You can think of it as a duel, if that helps.  Offensively, dexterity does nothing.  Do you really expect Low Dexterity to go running back and forth to help High Dexterity trigger his Combat Reflexes?  Nonsense.  The defensive difference might help HD hit LD more often, but (leaving aside 4e) attack bonuses have traditionally scaled far better than defenses, meaning that at a certain level it becomes meaningless as they both hit each other on anything other than a natural 1.Even if we accept your premise that HD will use different tactics, it's very situational.  There's no practical advantage to drawing and shooting me with your bow (1d8 damage + 4 str mod if composite in 3.x) if I can just draw my greatsword and charge you (1d12 damage + 6 str mod).  That's assuming I either don't have or don't bother to use power attack.  Shooting the low dex fighter with a bow is only advantageous if they meet at a far enough distance that it will take him multiple rounds to reach high dex fighter.  Otherwise, it's an unwise decision, since 1d8+4 < 1d12+6.  IME, encounters usually start much closer than at a range of 300 feet.Even in the case of 18 Dex vs 3 Dex, the initiative bonus does not guarantee that HD will go first.  It sways the odds in his favor, but if (for example) HD rolls a 1, LD only needs a 10 or higher.  The odds are significantly in HD's favor, but it's by no means a guaranteed success.  Keep in mind that this is such an extreme example that you're unlikely to see it in play!  Someone with perfect dexterity vs one of the clumsiest oafs on the planet.  If LD does win initiative, that advantage is his for the rest of the combat.I don't think you can really blame the combat rules.  What context should we examine ability scores from if not from how they interact with the other rules of the game?  It isn't as though there are arcane formulas in the combat section that make dexterity's utility less than realistic.  The bonuses are right on the ability score tables listed under Dexterity.  Besides, my argument wasn't that in some alternate universe Dex might be realistically modeled.  I'm referring to Dexterity as used in our universe.  Where it is not realistic.  The other ability scores, to varying degrees, are also unrealistic.  In large part that's because they are merely a simplification that is answerable to gamist principles (the designers seem to have made some token effort to balance ability scores in each edition).I'm not saying that I think they should get rid of ability scores.  All I'm saying is that I'm open to the possibility that there might be something that works better.  In that case, I'd be okay with replacing ability scores with something that works better.  Alternately, since ability scores don't work all that realistically with regard to the combat rules, I'd be fine with those interactions being removed and ability scores only modifying skills.</blockquote>

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