Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Ability Scores - Should they increase?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="DEFCON 1" data-source="post: 5772770" data-attributes="member: 7006"><p>To go along with what TerraDave said (which I think is pretty spot on) is that one of the current reasons why ability score increase (in addition to the half-level increase) was built into the system was to give you something to get every time you leveled up. It was a reward for leveling so that there would be less "dead levels" as they say.</p><p></p><p>But as everyone points out... this proliferation of number increases (from ability scores, adding in half-levels, bonuses from feats and equipment) brings in two problems. One, that the split between your highest of the high scores and lowest of the low score in things like attack bonuses, defenses, & skills becomes so great that most characters end up lopsided in some fashion. And two-- it becomes much harder for DMs to guesstimate the numbers he needs to set up for encounters because they are just so big that it's hard to visualize. Most of us all know instinctually that at 1st level, ACs of 15 or 16 are average, an AC of 20 is really good, and a monster with an AC of 22 is a beast. But what are those numbers for level 15? Anyone know? I sure as heck don't (without pulling out the books and doing a lot of the math to get there.)</p><p></p><p>Say what you will about the very early editions... but we KNEW that Full Plate Mail was an AC of 1 and was something to desperately try and find or buy. And even when you got fairly strong magical armor, you still weren't getting much lower than like AC -3 or so (unless you were very lucky, VERY high level or had a very generous DM)... and that was known, expected, and accepted.</p><p></p><p>*****</p><p></p><p>So the question really comes down to what is more important... more stuff to "gain" as you go up a level, or keeping numbers low so that it's easier for us to comprehend them instinctually? I don't know what is the right answer... although I do know my preference. Personally, I'd like to see ability bumps and half-level gains go away and keep all numbers fairly rigid... and just rely on new class abilities, exploits/spells/prayers, & talents/feats for things to "gain" as I level. I think it would be much easier to keep the game balanced, and more comprehensible to more players.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="DEFCON 1, post: 5772770, member: 7006"] To go along with what TerraDave said (which I think is pretty spot on) is that one of the current reasons why ability score increase (in addition to the half-level increase) was built into the system was to give you something to get every time you leveled up. It was a reward for leveling so that there would be less "dead levels" as they say. But as everyone points out... this proliferation of number increases (from ability scores, adding in half-levels, bonuses from feats and equipment) brings in two problems. One, that the split between your highest of the high scores and lowest of the low score in things like attack bonuses, defenses, & skills becomes so great that most characters end up lopsided in some fashion. And two-- it becomes much harder for DMs to guesstimate the numbers he needs to set up for encounters because they are just so big that it's hard to visualize. Most of us all know instinctually that at 1st level, ACs of 15 or 16 are average, an AC of 20 is really good, and a monster with an AC of 22 is a beast. But what are those numbers for level 15? Anyone know? I sure as heck don't (without pulling out the books and doing a lot of the math to get there.) Say what you will about the very early editions... but we KNEW that Full Plate Mail was an AC of 1 and was something to desperately try and find or buy. And even when you got fairly strong magical armor, you still weren't getting much lower than like AC -3 or so (unless you were very lucky, VERY high level or had a very generous DM)... and that was known, expected, and accepted. ***** So the question really comes down to what is more important... more stuff to "gain" as you go up a level, or keeping numbers low so that it's easier for us to comprehend them instinctually? I don't know what is the right answer... although I do know my preference. Personally, I'd like to see ability bumps and half-level gains go away and keep all numbers fairly rigid... and just rely on new class abilities, exploits/spells/prayers, & talents/feats for things to "gain" as I level. I think it would be much easier to keep the game balanced, and more comprehensible to more players. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Ability Scores - Should they increase?
Top