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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ARandomGod" data-source="post: 2352419" data-attributes="member: 17296">You say wisdom gives willpower. But where, other than the actual save, does the stat in 3.X currently labled "wisdom" actually reflect willpower? As in the power of your will over yourself or over others?As far as I can see it's pretty much all about perception. With, as I stated, the exception of that save. However in a conversation wherein I express an opinion about potentially moving the save because the stat it's attached to doesn't reflect what the save does, you can't say that the stat does reflect it because the save is there, that's just circular reasoning. You could say it's in the divine spellcasting, but that could just as easily be assigned to perception. Divine casters percieve ways to tap into power that's being offered for free to those who would take it. (Clerics/druids, obvisouly).Of course, the same could be said about spontanious arcane casting, so the fact that it's currently attributed to attributing his force of will to express magic can be dismissed as flavor text. It could just as easily be him charming the magic with his "inner beauty". However. What else is charisma attached to? Well, not much. My main arguement there was to use the actual flavor text as is and therefore boost a horrifically weak stat (charisma) at the expense of an overpowered one (Dex)Cha = Bluff. A skill about lying. Not really "inner beauty" in my mind. But I guess it could be... in some people's minds... However it fits willpower and force of will very nicely. You will believe me because Diplomacy = Easily inner beauty. A little more is generally needed, but allowing your inner beauty to shine forth can win a lot of diplomatic battles. Well, really, in anything other than politics, where they don't so much CARE about your beauty as their own agenda. Willpower fits better there IMO as well. You will listen to my point of view, and agree with it, because I'm mentally stronger than you are.Disguise. Well... heh. "Inner beauty" shining through is actually going to hurt you there. Only willpower makes any sense of those two options.Gather information. Willpower or inner beauty works ok here. I suggest you use both if applicable. Intimidate: Well. Inner beauty is gonna suck for this one. "Aww, he won't HURT me, he's a good person. We Loves Him". That's just not so intimidating as the thought of someone's willpower crushing your mind while his tongs crush your thumbnails.Perform. Once again either way. A good inner beauty and people will like you no matter how you do. A good willpower will help people to percieve you the way you want them to. Technically I think the second is a better performance. But people get by on looks/inner beauty often enough. And the Kicker. Use Magic Device. Inner beauty? What does a magic item care? Willpower? You'll FORCE it to care.OK. There's "charisma" being the basis for willpower. Where, exactly, does "wisdom" show any real willpower at all? Everything "wisdom" does is clearly perception, whith the possible exception of healing and survival... those could be attributed somewhere other than perception, but easily fit under perception as well.</blockquote>

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