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<blockquote data-quote="Einlanzer0" data-source="post: 6943648" data-attributes="member: 6788934"><p>I agree, but that's not my only issue. It bothers me just as much, if not more, that Str and Dex are interchangeable rather than supporting one another. Int and Dex were the same way in 4e. There's virtually never a reason to have a build that emphasizes some of both rather than pumping one and dumping the other. I think that's a big mechanical problem with the system as a whole. My primary goal is to address this, while also maybe slightly (at most) nerfing the overall effectiveness of Dex builds, since Dex builds give you a lot of utility that Str builds do not.</p><p></p><p>Using my proposed changes for Dex, I'd like some help figuring out what the best "break-even" point is. Is it a crit threshold of 18, 15, or lower?</p><p></p><p>If we assume a target with a target hit of 10 or higher, this is what we have for a level 1 Rogue assuming Dex 16 grants a crit threshold of 19:</p><p></p><p></p><p>Str 10, Dex 16 Standard Rules</p><p>90% - 1d6+1d6+3 = 10</p><p>10% - 2d6+2d6+3 = 16</p><p>Total damage over 10 rounds = 106</p><p></p><p></p><p>Str 10, Dex 16 Modified Rules</p><p>70% - 1d6+1d6 = 7</p><p>20% - 2d6+2d6+6 = 16</p><p>Total damage over 10 rounds = 80</p><p></p><p>This is a pretty strict nerf to Dex builds. However, for rogues in particular, the scaling on Sneak Attack will first mitigate and then overpower this, swinging the balance in the opposite direction. This is still unfair to fighters, however. So let's look at a crit of 18 instead of 19 at 16 Dex.</p><p></p><p>Str 10, Dex 16 Standard Rules</p><p>90% - 1d6+1d6+3 = 10</p><p>10% - 2d6+2d6+3 = 16</p><p>Overall average = 106</p><p></p><p></p><p>Str 10, Dex 16 Modified Rules</p><p>70% - 1d6+1d6 = 7</p><p>30% - 2d6+2d6+3 = 16</p><p>Total damage over 10 rounds = 97</p><p></p><p>This is starting to look a little more appropriate. Still a slight nerf to Dex builds, but, again, the target hit value also factors into the equation. If you need a 14 to hit the target, the extra crit chance becomes much more valuable in terms of your total potential damage. This would mean that Dex based builds have a particular potency against very high AC targets relative to Str based builds, which actually makes sense.</p><p></p><p>Dex < 12 = 20 crit</p><p>Dex between 12 and 15 = 19 crit</p><p>Dex between 16 and 19 = 18 crit</p><p>Dex 20+ = 17 crit. Or maybe not. I may cap it at 18. More theorycrafting will help make this determination.</p><p></p><p>Using this will be an overall slight nerf to fighters using Dex based builds, but they should still be significantly better than their 3.5 counterparts, and should compete well enough with Str builds - in particular against targets with high AC, where they would pick up an advantage. It actually will be a buff to Rogues as they rise in level, possibly so much of one that it will require rebalancing the Sneak Attack table. Most importantly, this will allow characters to invest in both Str and Dex if they really want to maximize their damage at the expense of survivability and utility.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Einlanzer0, post: 6943648, member: 6788934"] I agree, but that's not my only issue. It bothers me just as much, if not more, that Str and Dex are interchangeable rather than supporting one another. Int and Dex were the same way in 4e. There's virtually never a reason to have a build that emphasizes some of both rather than pumping one and dumping the other. I think that's a big mechanical problem with the system as a whole. My primary goal is to address this, while also maybe slightly (at most) nerfing the overall effectiveness of Dex builds, since Dex builds give you a lot of utility that Str builds do not. Using my proposed changes for Dex, I'd like some help figuring out what the best "break-even" point is. Is it a crit threshold of 18, 15, or lower? If we assume a target with a target hit of 10 or higher, this is what we have for a level 1 Rogue assuming Dex 16 grants a crit threshold of 19: Str 10, Dex 16 Standard Rules 90% - 1d6+1d6+3 = 10 10% - 2d6+2d6+3 = 16 Total damage over 10 rounds = 106 Str 10, Dex 16 Modified Rules 70% - 1d6+1d6 = 7 20% - 2d6+2d6+6 = 16 Total damage over 10 rounds = 80 This is a pretty strict nerf to Dex builds. However, for rogues in particular, the scaling on Sneak Attack will first mitigate and then overpower this, swinging the balance in the opposite direction. This is still unfair to fighters, however. So let's look at a crit of 18 instead of 19 at 16 Dex. Str 10, Dex 16 Standard Rules 90% - 1d6+1d6+3 = 10 10% - 2d6+2d6+3 = 16 Overall average = 106 Str 10, Dex 16 Modified Rules 70% - 1d6+1d6 = 7 30% - 2d6+2d6+3 = 16 Total damage over 10 rounds = 97 This is starting to look a little more appropriate. Still a slight nerf to Dex builds, but, again, the target hit value also factors into the equation. If you need a 14 to hit the target, the extra crit chance becomes much more valuable in terms of your total potential damage. This would mean that Dex based builds have a particular potency against very high AC targets relative to Str based builds, which actually makes sense. Dex < 12 = 20 crit Dex between 12 and 15 = 19 crit Dex between 16 and 19 = 18 crit Dex 20+ = 17 crit. Or maybe not. I may cap it at 18. More theorycrafting will help make this determination. Using this will be an overall slight nerf to fighters using Dex based builds, but they should still be significantly better than their 3.5 counterparts, and should compete well enough with Str builds - in particular against targets with high AC, where they would pick up an advantage. It actually will be a buff to Rogues as they rise in level, possibly so much of one that it will require rebalancing the Sneak Attack table. Most importantly, this will allow characters to invest in both Str and Dex if they really want to maximize their damage at the expense of survivability and utility. [/QUOTE]
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