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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celtavian" data-source="post: 8052303" data-attributes="member: 5834">That doesn't sound particularly interesting. I was already turned off by the AP by Paizo deciding to make all damage nonlethal in a fantasy game and making it seem as if any law enforcement that uses lethal force is automatically wrong. It was a ridiculous overreaction by Paizo in a fantasy game made for killing monsters and evil creatures as the primary means of advancement. If they wanted to offer nonlethal alternate rules for that handful of people who can't tell the difference between fiction and reality, then have at it. But this broad assumption that we're all dumb and can't tell the difference between fantasy cops in a world with dragons, demons, and H.P. Lovecraft types of creatures just to name a few is just strange. If a customer can't tell this is a game for killing monsters and feeling like a fantasy hero, then I don't know that they should be playing this game to begin with. What's going on in the world isn't going to suddenly make fantasy gamers go, "Wait a minute. Maybe I need to be nicer to that orc warlord trying to destroy my village? Maybe there's just a misunderstanding between us." Or "It's time for me to stop judging that demon from The Abyss. Perhaps he's just from a different culture than I am." It's not going to make any more sense if I'm a cop trying to do nonlethal damage to a serial killer who ends up being a demon or a group of cultists engaged in human sacrifice to the Old Gods to destroy the city. I'm not taking them in or pulling my punches if they try to kill my cop character. That's an even worse lesson to teach to try using nonlethal force when someone is using lethal force against you. The module would get even dumber if everyone including the psychotic cultists started using nonlethal force against the police so they can be sensitive to real world issues. I can't even imagine thinking that is a sensible way to handle this AP. Do the monsters use nonlethal force too or is this a one-sided use of nonlethal force? As in the monsters get to kill you, but you somehow magically knock them all out?It would have been a 100 times better if the AP writers or Paizo public relations had instead gone through each module prior to publishing and flagged encounters where the players should use nonlethal force. Then the DM can cue the players that this is a situation where they should follow the law and take the subjects in alive. And that not only should take in the subjects alive, but are legally obligated to take in the subjects alive. Not only would this have made them feel more like real cops knowing they are expected to follow the law too, but would have fit the game environment much better by letting the players clearly know when they can take off the cop gloves and fight for their lives versus do their job and capture troublemakers in a nonlethal way.I do this all the time in my games. I clearly let my players know when a situation requires use of nonlethal force and that there are likely legal and reputation repercussions for killing enemies. I cued my players a few times in Extinction Curse when breaking up some brawls. It's a much smarter way to handle the situation than a blanket nonlethal force ruling. That ruling just shows a company overreacting in a way that makes their customer seem dumb. I've handled nonlethal force and sticky situations in towns or civilized areas often. If you cue the players, they handle it even better because they act in a restrained manner and roleplay in a more interesting way. Even in the Age of Ashes AP I've had players take in quite a few enemies to the authorities to ensure the entire party isn't filled with murderous, sociopathic psychotics. Sometimes players get to caught up in the war game aspect of these RPGs wanting to use their combat abilities and forget they're supposed to be characters in a story. I don't like them forgetting that. An overly bloodthirsty party isn't interesting to run.</blockquote>

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