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About Bonus action attacks and shove.
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<blockquote data-quote="Ovinomancer" data-source="post: 6727781" data-attributes="member: 16814"><p>No, you can't 'bring tacos' until after you've 'come over' on the fact that it's nonsensical to tell someone 'I brought the taco, but I haven't gone over yet'. </p><p></p><p></p><p>Ah, but you changed something there. You swapped 'bring the tacos' for 'get the tacos'. Those are not synonymous. Getting the tacos is a prerequisite for bringing the over, yes, but it's not the actual action of 'bringing the tacos.' You can't switch those around and still make sense.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I've already pointed out the issue with 'bring tacos' above, but your second isn't a good example either because it's just a statement about simultaneity. I do X when I do Y. That just says that X occurs somethime during Y. It wouldn't apply if you were doing X prior to doing Y, or after, as it indicates sameness of time. If you changed it to 'When I do X, then Y', Y is conditional on X happening.</p><p></p><p>That's my point, the words set up a conditional statement, when X then Y, except it's even stronger because it's when X, then and only then Y. Y cannot occur outside of X occurring, and the natural reading of that is that X must occur prior to Y.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Nope. That's usually a decent go to, because you're correct that English is a hard language when it comes to precision (but if it were extremely imprecise, as you note, then we'd be unable to communicate effective which is not the case). But when X then Y is a logical statement, and there's no confusion as to what that means, it means for Y to occur, X must have already happened. There's little confusion or imprecision about how when is used here.</p><p></p><p>Again, I feel I should note that the advice given is that it doesn't work the way it reads. My point is that there's no way I would have reached that conclusion, given the natural reading of the words. Continuing to argue with my statement about how I perceive the world with contrived statements attempting to invoke imprecision to show that I would or should have figured out what I said I wouldn't have is somewhat strange to me. I don't get the motivation necessary to argue with someone that clearly stated their thinking as if you can convince them that they are wrong about how they thought. Baffling.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ovinomancer, post: 6727781, member: 16814"] No, you can't 'bring tacos' until after you've 'come over' on the fact that it's nonsensical to tell someone 'I brought the taco, but I haven't gone over yet'. Ah, but you changed something there. You swapped 'bring the tacos' for 'get the tacos'. Those are not synonymous. Getting the tacos is a prerequisite for bringing the over, yes, but it's not the actual action of 'bringing the tacos.' You can't switch those around and still make sense. I've already pointed out the issue with 'bring tacos' above, but your second isn't a good example either because it's just a statement about simultaneity. I do X when I do Y. That just says that X occurs somethime during Y. It wouldn't apply if you were doing X prior to doing Y, or after, as it indicates sameness of time. If you changed it to 'When I do X, then Y', Y is conditional on X happening. That's my point, the words set up a conditional statement, when X then Y, except it's even stronger because it's when X, then and only then Y. Y cannot occur outside of X occurring, and the natural reading of that is that X must occur prior to Y. Nope. That's usually a decent go to, because you're correct that English is a hard language when it comes to precision (but if it were extremely imprecise, as you note, then we'd be unable to communicate effective which is not the case). But when X then Y is a logical statement, and there's no confusion as to what that means, it means for Y to occur, X must have already happened. There's little confusion or imprecision about how when is used here. Again, I feel I should note that the advice given is that it doesn't work the way it reads. My point is that there's no way I would have reached that conclusion, given the natural reading of the words. Continuing to argue with my statement about how I perceive the world with contrived statements attempting to invoke imprecision to show that I would or should have figured out what I said I wouldn't have is somewhat strange to me. I don't get the motivation necessary to argue with someone that clearly stated their thinking as if you can convince them that they are wrong about how they thought. Baffling. [/QUOTE]
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