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Message: <blockquote data-quote="WarlockLord" data-source="post: 3960281" data-attributes="member: 40098">True, but you need something to lie about.  All the lying capabilities are used to further a plan of some sort, and I daresay most of the Machiavellian planners are both smart and manipulative.  Elan from OOTS, although he has a high cha, can't plan for ****.  Why not give them the same ability bonuses they had in 3.5 (dex, int, cha) and give them a weaker special powers?  We know darkness and levitation are feats, this leaves spell resistance (which I suspect is gone in 4e since it slows down the game, maybe a conditional defence bonus?), and dancing lights and faerie fire, both of which suck and could easily be dropped.</blockquote>