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Message: <blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 3336235" data-attributes="member: 2011">Well, I think we are having a communication problem here because I am not understanding your POV.Let me see if I got your POV straight with two examples. I am writing these examples as I perceive your POV to be. Please correct me if I am incorrect.1) One PC is on one side of a closed (but not locked) door. One NPC is on the other side of the door.The PC hears the NPC, but the NPC fails his Listen check (while the door is closed) and does not hear the PC.The PC opens the door (move action before combat started), the NPC does not get any checks to see if he is suprised, is automatically surprised, and the PC gets to roll initiative for the surprise round (and cast his Hold Person spell as per the "IMO in error according to the rules" example in the DMG).2) One PC is on one side of a doorway. One NPC is on the other side of the doorway. The door is already open.The PC hears the NPC, but the NPC fails his Listen roll and does not hear the PC.The PC casts a Bless spell (standard action before combat started), the NPC does get a Listen check to see if he is surprised, may or may not be surprised, and the PC only gets to roll initiative for a surprise round if the NPC was surprised.Same number of actions. Same sequence of events. The only difference is that in one case, a door is being opened and in the other, a Bless spell is being cast.The Bless spell gives the NPC a Listen check, but opening the door does not.Do I have your POV properly explained here?If so, can you explain the discrepency (within the rules) as to why these situations are not identical from a rules perspective and should not be handled identically (i.e. give the NPC in the room a Listen check when the door is opened or when the Bless spell is cast)?What mystical rule makes opening the door an action that cannot alert an enemy, but other actions like casting a Bless spell can alert the enemy?</blockquote>

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