Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 3341440" data-attributes="member: 2011">This is not true. I have quoted the rules for you and carefully explained how my POV follows them. You have not once quoted the rules and explained how your POV follows the rules. Your POV follows that one example.I have also illustrated how your POV even follows the rules, but not in the way the rules suggest it be handled. Your POV is legal, but not as per the direction of RAW.You are missing the point. The DM has two ways to run these types of scenarios: pre-combat or post-combat. If the door is locked and the DM thinks there might be problems with the idea of opening the door as part of the surprise round (i.e. post-combat and in the surprise round), he can easily not start the combat until the door is actually open (i.e. pre-combat open the door).These problems you talk about are only in your mind. Any DM can easily avoid them by making the door opening pre-combat as opposed to post-combat if he thinks there will be a problem.Casting an offensive spell is a combat action. Opening a door is not.Hence, casting a Fireball is always a post-combat action (if attacking creatures with it). Opening a door can be a pre-combat or post-combat action depending on what the DM decides.Since casting Silent Fireball is post-combat, if any NPCs have line of sight to the caster, they get Spot checks to see if they notice him at the start of combat. If not, they are surprised (if they are out of line of sight, they cannot hear it because it is Silent). If none of the NPCs have line of sight to the caster, then this indeed is an auto-surprise situation.Auto-surprise situations can occur. As an example, an Invisible caster casting a Silent spell. But, the open the door scenario is only an auto-surprise situation if the door is opened post-combat. The PCs use up the Standard Action of one of the PCs to open the door, the rest of the PCs auto-surprise the NPCs. If it is opened pre-combat, the NPCs get checks to notice the door opening.Whether that makes sense or not to you is irrelevent. Those are the rules. Opening the door post-combat as part of the surprise round is the only way to auto-surprise in the open door scenario. Opening pre-combat does not guarantee surprise.And the players do not decide if opening the door is pre-combat or post-combat, the DM decides. Some DMs might never make it post-combat because of the problems you mentioned (e.g. the door might be locked). Other DMs might.But, that does not change the fact that the DM can decide on either of these two options and both are legal.As for my question that you failed to answer here, I'll try to re-explain.Casting a spell is an action. Opening a door is an action. Pulling out a weapon is an action. Drinking a potion is an action.If the NPCs who are currently unaware of the PCs are capable of hearing or seeing the action, then they should get a check to notice the action.Regardless of situation.But for you, opening a door with an aware side on one side and an unaware side on the other does NOT give checks. My question is why not? You have yet to answer the question. You keep saying that is how you would do it, but you have not yet explained what is so special about the door action.1) Why are the unaware NPCs auto-surprised in a scenario whem the aware PC opens a closed door?2) Why are the unaware NPCs not auto-surprised in a scenario whem the aware PC Fighter takes a 5 foot step into an open doorway and pulls out his weapon?3) Why are the unaware NPCs not auto-surprised in a scenario whem the aware PC Cleric casts a spell outside an open doorway, but out of view?All three of these are identical situations from a start of combat perspective. They are all observable actions. They all consist of aware PCs trying to surprise and attack the NPCs. What is special about the door?What is so special about opening a door that the unaware NPCs are auto-surprised? You are using different rules for the open the door action than you are the other actions, hence, you are being inconsistent.I have no other way to explain it. You have yet to explain what is so special about the door situation that you use different rules with it (auto-surprise versus checks) than with other observable actions.</blockquote>

Verification