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Message: <blockquote data-quote="(Psi)SeveredHead" data-source="post: 2498944" data-attributes="member: 1165">I disagree with you, and it's not just about CR.It's about PC capabilities. It sucks playing a PC with a crappy AC score or a lame saving throw. The former is worse, as it affects RP and not just metagaming. PCs don't learn to dodge or parry, even with magical items - they let the magical items do the work for them. Without magic items, they're just meatshields, without the shield - they have to stand there and take hits. I don't know why a trained warrior would allow that, but that's how DnD works. You can't have a cool combat scene like Bronn vs the older guy in George R R Martin's work. You'll never see a character that even remotely resembles the warriors in a Forgotten Realms novel (who, incidentally, never have the kind of gear a DnD 3e campaign expects, and did I forget to mention this was the magic soaked Forgetten Realms?).It means you can't build a competent swashbuckler or martial artist without either being wimpy or using a poorly balanced class (like the monk, or every WotC DnD swashbuckling class I've ever seen).Now there's Combat Expertise, but it doesn't go up to +10 (not in the core rules) and many warriors don't have an Int of 13. (That feat should use BAB rather than Int as a requirement.) It's pretty rare to find an NPC fighter who does have it and use it that way, even if your campaign has Improved Combat Expertise in it. Besides, it drains your attack bonus too much. (The emphasis on magic items ensures that NPC non-spellcasters are going to suck. They're not worth their CR.)That's one reason why I prefer D20 Modern and Iron Heroes - heroes are allowed to fight in a realistic way that can suit their character concept. (If you add up the attack and Defense values, they max out at +15 for 10th-level Strong and Fast characters. A DnD 10th-level fighter gets +10, whether he uses Combat Expertise or not.)I'll give you an example. In one campaign, I'm a 7th-level Iron Kingdoms ranger (more flexible than the 3.5 ranger and has no magical abilities) with an AC of 27. Yes, that is ridiculously high - the DM handed out way too many magical items. When he gets into a fight, he's not bold at all. He uses total defense and other such maneuvers all the time because he's not confident in his AC. Despite a 27 value, his total contribution to his own AC is a mere +3. +7 if you count his armor proficiency (which was free) as a character ability. The rest comes from magic items. (More than half of his AC was magic.) In a campaign where magic item/wealth values are followed more strictly, the problem would simply be delayed a few levels.I also played a D20 Modern martial artist with a Defense of 21 (22 vs melee). To put this in perspective, he would get hit 40% of the time instead of 10% of the time like the above ranger, and a crit could drop him at any time (because of massive damage rules). He had no qualms about taking on multiple foes wielding big weapons though, seeing how he was able to take care of his own Defense score. As a martial artist, his Defense was good, and because he spent character abilities to boosting it, he made sure to actually use it.Who needs that kind of work? That's time you could be working on your campaign. Even if I wanted to do it, I'm still not interested in misbalanced PCs with high attack bonuses and crappy AC values. "Blood for blood" is a stupid combat style and I've had my fill of DMing such poorly designed monsters already. Why plague the PCs with the same king od nonsense?No kidding.This works, for the same reason that Iron Heroes and D20 Modern does.</blockquote>

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