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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ThirdWizard" data-source="post: 2502791" data-attributes="member: 12037">If they're fighting things 25% CRs under them maybe. But still probably not. Casters will have a huge huge advantage over them.They all need the bonuses to hit, to ability scores, and to saving throws at the very least. Then, there's damage. With no magical items, a 15th level barbarian is doing what? 1d12+9 damage? The ranger is less. The poor rogue only has a +18 to hit with his primary, and unless its a sneak attack he's doing 1d6+2 damage (if he put his Str at 14). And, they can't do things like fly unless the wizard casts the spells on them. And, their saving throws... ugh... forget it, don't even bother rolling. With +6 poor saves, they're failing everything. And AC? That's a laugh. Everything will power attack them for full and hit every time.To contrast, the barbarian with magical items is probably going to be doing around 1d12+16+2d6. The ranger and rogue will do more damage as well. They'll have poor saves in the +10 range or higher, and their AC will be at least a deterrant for power attck at worst if they try raising it.  Plus they'll be able to fly, or be invisible, or heal without the aid of a caster using their precious slots on them. In other words, they'll be viable characters when facing a CR equal to their level.Not to say that low magic items isn't viable, but the game has to change a lot more than the DM giving out less magic to be truely viable. I've played in a game where the DM just gave out less magical items. The druid's summons were far far more impressive than I was. I wondered why he even kept me around. And, that was 3.0 with an arguabliy weaker druid (before Natural Spell existed even).</blockquote>

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