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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Yair" data-source="post: 2551592" data-attributes="member: 10913">The most abstract system, and a very brief one, that I know of is <a href="http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=4037&" target="_blank">Grim Tale's Mass Combat</a>, cheap and makes a lot of sense but fairly course grained and you need to wrap your head around it.A clarification:While I've heared good things about other systems, I feel GTMC is the most abstract. In fact, it may be too abstract.Essentially, the only significant statistic of your unit in the GTMC is its CR/EL. That is all. Oh, it gets complicated but the system uses EL much like the olod War Machine used BR. And EL is much easier to determine for 3e creatures.Of course, CR/EL is also very granular. You will NOT be able to properly model the benefit of properly versus cheaply arming your army, for example. But it is far more simple then the unit-based systems that extend the d20 mecahnics to a mass scale. Much more abstract, too.</blockquote>