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Abstract versus concrete in games (or, why rules-light systems suck)
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<blockquote data-quote="Majoru Oakheart" data-source="post: 2304195" data-attributes="member: 5143"><p>That's not true at all. I think 3.5 edition does a good represenation of making my character interesting. It means I have different abilties than other people. It means when I say "I am the ultimate sword fighter, I trained for years under the most skilled master in the world perfecting my art. I roll to hit, I hit ac 15." then my party member whose background is "I picked up a sword last week from the pawn shop, I learned how to fight in bars though." doesn't roll to hit and hit ac 15 as well because they rules don't reflect our backgrounds.</p><p></p><p>The rules system has to be complicated enough to at least notice the difference. If the rules encourage role playing by giving you a reason to have background, the more people will role play. If every 1st level fighter has the same abilties then they will all have the same background that reflects those abilities. I know almost all of my 2nd edition fighters all were 15 year old kids who barely knew how to wield a sword, because that's about the skill level you started at in those rules.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Actually, I'd much prefer they use a book. A lot of DMs I've played under haven't read too many of them, which is why putting fiat in their hands is dangerous. Worse yet, the ones that HAVE read something so think they are an expert in subject they don't know all that well.</p><p></p><p>I now dread certain words coming out of DMs mouths while playing games with less rules and more DM fiat. Things like:</p><p></p><p>"Yes, he jumps 30 feet over the pit. I read in the Book of World Records that the longest jump made by a human is 35 feet. So, OBVIOUSLY a dwarf can do 30 with no problem."</p><p></p><p>"I fight in the SCA, so I know how real weapons work. It is perfectly possible to wield 2 longswords without any penalty at all and do full damage with both. It's the way I win all the time, it's easy. So, the enemy hits all of you before you can strike back at him."</p><p></p><p>"No, you don't see the enemy, you are using infravision, and he had mud on him. It makes you invisible to infravision, haven't you seen Predator?"</p><p></p><p>And they get worse from there. Every possible bad interpretation of reality has been stated by a DM I played under as FACT and then quoted something like "I'm the DM, I'm always right"</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Majoru Oakheart, post: 2304195, member: 5143"] That's not true at all. I think 3.5 edition does a good represenation of making my character interesting. It means I have different abilties than other people. It means when I say "I am the ultimate sword fighter, I trained for years under the most skilled master in the world perfecting my art. I roll to hit, I hit ac 15." then my party member whose background is "I picked up a sword last week from the pawn shop, I learned how to fight in bars though." doesn't roll to hit and hit ac 15 as well because they rules don't reflect our backgrounds. The rules system has to be complicated enough to at least notice the difference. If the rules encourage role playing by giving you a reason to have background, the more people will role play. If every 1st level fighter has the same abilties then they will all have the same background that reflects those abilities. I know almost all of my 2nd edition fighters all were 15 year old kids who barely knew how to wield a sword, because that's about the skill level you started at in those rules. Actually, I'd much prefer they use a book. A lot of DMs I've played under haven't read too many of them, which is why putting fiat in their hands is dangerous. Worse yet, the ones that HAVE read something so think they are an expert in subject they don't know all that well. I now dread certain words coming out of DMs mouths while playing games with less rules and more DM fiat. Things like: "Yes, he jumps 30 feet over the pit. I read in the Book of World Records that the longest jump made by a human is 35 feet. So, OBVIOUSLY a dwarf can do 30 with no problem." "I fight in the SCA, so I know how real weapons work. It is perfectly possible to wield 2 longswords without any penalty at all and do full damage with both. It's the way I win all the time, it's easy. So, the enemy hits all of you before you can strike back at him." "No, you don't see the enemy, you are using infravision, and he had mud on him. It makes you invisible to infravision, haven't you seen Predator?" And they get worse from there. Every possible bad interpretation of reality has been stated by a DM I played under as FACT and then quoted something like "I'm the DM, I'm always right" [/QUOTE]
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