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<blockquote data-quote="Majoru Oakheart" data-source="post: 2309314" data-attributes="member: 5143">This is my point as well.&nbsp; If you have a rule for, say, jumping, everyone knows that the average person not skilled in jumping can jump X feet with about X amount of variation for conditions and luck.&nbsp; That is the way the world works.If you have no rule for it and would prefer players &quot;imagine&quot; the world, then you run into situations where people have wildly different assumptions about very basic things.As in real life, if you are going to jump over a pit, most people can look at it and know &quot;I might be able to jump that.&quot;&nbsp; If you know the rules in a rules heavier system, you can know if you can make it.&nbsp; In the rules light system, you are relying on an agreement on what &quot;average&quot; is amongst you, the DM, and the rest of the players.&nbsp; It rarely meshes without discussion.One player thinks: &quot;I can only jump around 3 feet in real life, but I'm pretty big.&nbsp; More nimble people should be able to do 5 feet.&quot;Another one things: &quot;I can jump 10 feet easily with a running jump, I think everyone should be able to do that.&quot;The DM thinks: &quot;Well, Drizz't jumped a 15 foot pit in that book and he's just an elf, I could see humans being able to jump 20 easily.&quot;And all 3 of them can be firmly convinced that all of those assumptions are true in the game world.&nbsp; That's their imaginations at work.&nbsp; And then, their characters base their actions on those assumptions.How does that relate to this discussion?&nbsp; Simple?&nbsp; The player sees movies like Zorro and says &quot;I want to be a character like that.&nbsp; I want to wear no armor, use a light weapon, move quickly, and be a good fighter.&quot;&nbsp; So he looks for the rules that let him do all of those things.&nbsp; When the rules say &quot;You can't do all those things.&nbsp; Choose some of them, but not all of them&quot; he asks his DM to change the rules to allow it.&nbsp; The DM says no, leaving him with only one choice: change his character concept to fit the rules of the game.No matter how hard you try to use your imagination, if you want to have a character who runs faster than other people and according to the rules of the game, you can't possibly run faster than them, you can't play the character you want.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Majoru Oakheart, post: 2309314, member: 5143"] This is my point as well. If you have a rule for, say, jumping, everyone knows that the average person not skilled in jumping can jump X feet with about X amount of variation for conditions and luck. That is the way the world works. If you have no rule for it and would prefer players "imagine" the world, then you run into situations where people have wildly different assumptions about very basic things. As in real life, if you are going to jump over a pit, most people can look at it and know "I might be able to jump that." If you know the rules in a rules heavier system, you can know if you can make it. In the rules light system, you are relying on an agreement on what "average" is amongst you, the DM, and the rest of the players. It rarely meshes without discussion. One player thinks: "I can only jump around 3 feet in real life, but I'm pretty big. More nimble people should be able to do 5 feet." Another one things: "I can jump 10 feet easily with a running jump, I think everyone should be able to do that." The DM thinks: "Well, Drizz't jumped a 15 foot pit in that book and he's just an elf, I could see humans being able to jump 20 easily." And all 3 of them can be firmly convinced that all of those assumptions are true in the game world. That's their imaginations at work. And then, their characters base their actions on those assumptions. How does that relate to this discussion? Simple? The player sees movies like Zorro and says "I want to be a character like that. I want to wear no armor, use a light weapon, move quickly, and be a good fighter." So he looks for the rules that let him do all of those things. When the rules say "You can't do all those things. Choose some of them, but not all of them" he asks his DM to change the rules to allow it. The DM says no, leaving him with only one choice: change his character concept to fit the rules of the game. No matter how hard you try to use your imagination, if you want to have a character who runs faster than other people and according to the rules of the game, you can't possibly run faster than them, you can't play the character you want. [/QUOTE]

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