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Abstract versus concrete in games (or, why rules-light systems suck)
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<blockquote data-quote="Akrasia" data-source="post: 2315313" data-attributes="member: 23012"><p>I am not sure I understand how this is a criticism of 'rules light' games. There is<em> nothing</em> in a rules light game that precludes characters getting "better" at things. </p><p></p><p>In C&C, for example, characters add their class levels to all task rolls (that do not involve the abilities of another class) and saving throws. So high level characters will be better at most tasks than low level characters.</p><p></p><p>And of course the character's choice of primes also affect his/her abilities.</p><p></p><p>The<em> only</em> difference is that PCs in C&C 'get better' at things at a more general rate, whereas in 3e you have to allocate skill points, etc. (In other words, improvement in C&C is not as fine grained and detailed as it is in 3e -- but there is just as much improvement!)</p><p> </p><p></p><p></p><p>Sure, by having a lot more rules that feats allow you to break. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> </p><p></p><p>I agree that a feat or skill system gives more tactical options to nonspellcasters. My disagreement was with the claim that this was necessary to 'balance' nonspellcasters with spellcasters.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Well C&C will <em>never</em> be as complicated as 3e simply because it will never have 3e's combat system, endless modifiers, etc. And I doubt that feats will be added. </p><p></p><p>In any case, I think that the idea behind C&C is to present groups with a <em>very simple set of 'basic rules'</em> (as provided in the PH), and then provide <em>different options</em> in the CKG that can be added to the rules by different groups, as they see fit. By being modular in this way, different groups can add detail to those aspects of the game where they want it, but leave other aspects of the game simple.</p><p></p><p>The 'customizable' (or tweakable) character class option will let CKs build particular new classes to suit their campaigns and/or interests of their players. There was a set of easy rules for doing this for the old Basic/Expert D&D rules from the early 80s, so it will hardly introduce 3e-levels of detail into the game (for those groups who choose to use the option).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Akrasia, post: 2315313, member: 23012"] I am not sure I understand how this is a criticism of 'rules light' games. There is[I] nothing[/I] in a rules light game that precludes characters getting "better" at things. In C&C, for example, characters add their class levels to all task rolls (that do not involve the abilities of another class) and saving throws. So high level characters will be better at most tasks than low level characters. And of course the character's choice of primes also affect his/her abilities. The[I] only[/I] difference is that PCs in C&C 'get better' at things at a more general rate, whereas in 3e you have to allocate skill points, etc. (In other words, improvement in C&C is not as fine grained and detailed as it is in 3e -- but there is just as much improvement!) Sure, by having a lot more rules that feats allow you to break. ;) I agree that a feat or skill system gives more tactical options to nonspellcasters. My disagreement was with the claim that this was necessary to 'balance' nonspellcasters with spellcasters. Well C&C will [I]never[/I] be as complicated as 3e simply because it will never have 3e's combat system, endless modifiers, etc. And I doubt that feats will be added. In any case, I think that the idea behind C&C is to present groups with a [I]very simple set of 'basic rules'[/I] (as provided in the PH), and then provide [I]different options[/I] in the CKG that can be added to the rules by different groups, as they see fit. By being modular in this way, different groups can add detail to those aspects of the game where they want it, but leave other aspects of the game simple. The 'customizable' (or tweakable) character class option will let CKs build particular new classes to suit their campaigns and/or interests of their players. There was a set of easy rules for doing this for the old Basic/Expert D&D rules from the early 80s, so it will hardly introduce 3e-levels of detail into the game (for those groups who choose to use the option). [/QUOTE]
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