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Abstract versus concrete in games (or, why rules-light systems suck)
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<blockquote data-quote="Silverleaf" data-source="post: 2318273" data-attributes="member: 30790"><p>It's not hard to add a house rule if that bothers you. I did something kinda like that in B/X D&D, where I let PCs fight with two weapons (nothing crazy, just sensible combinations like sword+dagger) and although the extra weapon doesn't give free attacks, it acts like a shield for melee purposes. These kinds of tweaks are easy to add if/when the situation arises, but I also think that if you don't like doing this sort of customization then you probably don't want to play rules-light games. This is not a dig at you or anybody who likes tons of features (feats, etc.), it's simply the realities of having a smaller, more abstract set of rules.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>In fact, you can carry two weapons and attack with both, but that doesn't allow you do more damage in the same round. The damage you do in one round is already abstracted within one attack roll. That doesn't mean you only took one swing at your opponent, no it lets you decide and roleplay if you swung at him once, or maybe feinted and then parried and stabbed. It's highly abstract, just as the exact nature of the damage inflicted is highly abstract. Pilling very specific maneuvers and options on top of such an unstable base doesn't make much sense IMO (there are other games designed from the ground-up for that kind of stuff). But to each his own...</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Well it's true that magic-users can potentially become very powerful. Good luck getting there though, I've never seen a "legit" 12th-level magic-user in B/X D&D (one who progressed that far, as opposed to one that was created high-level).</p><p>But still, high-level fighters have options available to them that magic-users don't. They most likely have nice enchanted armor and weapons, lots of hit points, and excellent to-hit rolls, which means they can go toe-to-toe with big nasty monsters while the magic-user gets to hang behind so he doesn't die the first time the dragon breathes... Some players live for that stuff, it's the kind of glory a magic-user character won't be able to partake in (unless he's really lucky and crazy). They're also excellent at missile weapons too. And more than likely, they'll also have a few tricks up their sleeves, in the form of magic items with spell-like effects.</p><p>Sure, the m-u will have many more spells available, but that's what he does, and he paid the price for it by suffering through the early levels, hanging for dear life with his 1 hit point and Sleep spell. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> And of course, he needs an extra 150,000 XPs to make it to 12th level (by that time the fighter is already into his 13th level).</p><p></p><p>Another thing is that some players don't like all the complications of many tactical options. They don't play for that reason, they're there to roleplay and kill dragons & orcs. They don't see themselves as generals or tacticians, but rather as "the guy in that movie". In fact, I've known people who don't ever play magic-users or clerics because they don't like having to deal with all the spell mumbo-jumbo.</p><p></p><p>And honestly, I got tired of much of the options and tactical aspect of the game too, which is why I went back to Basic/Expert edition. I was never much into the stats & rules part to begin with, even back in the day when it was all fresh and new. But now I simply don't have any patience for that. Give me fantasy and bare-bones rules, I'll handle the rest...</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Silverleaf, post: 2318273, member: 30790"] It's not hard to add a house rule if that bothers you. I did something kinda like that in B/X D&D, where I let PCs fight with two weapons (nothing crazy, just sensible combinations like sword+dagger) and although the extra weapon doesn't give free attacks, it acts like a shield for melee purposes. These kinds of tweaks are easy to add if/when the situation arises, but I also think that if you don't like doing this sort of customization then you probably don't want to play rules-light games. This is not a dig at you or anybody who likes tons of features (feats, etc.), it's simply the realities of having a smaller, more abstract set of rules. In fact, you can carry two weapons and attack with both, but that doesn't allow you do more damage in the same round. The damage you do in one round is already abstracted within one attack roll. That doesn't mean you only took one swing at your opponent, no it lets you decide and roleplay if you swung at him once, or maybe feinted and then parried and stabbed. It's highly abstract, just as the exact nature of the damage inflicted is highly abstract. Pilling very specific maneuvers and options on top of such an unstable base doesn't make much sense IMO (there are other games designed from the ground-up for that kind of stuff). But to each his own... Well it's true that magic-users can potentially become very powerful. Good luck getting there though, I've never seen a "legit" 12th-level magic-user in B/X D&D (one who progressed that far, as opposed to one that was created high-level). But still, high-level fighters have options available to them that magic-users don't. They most likely have nice enchanted armor and weapons, lots of hit points, and excellent to-hit rolls, which means they can go toe-to-toe with big nasty monsters while the magic-user gets to hang behind so he doesn't die the first time the dragon breathes... Some players live for that stuff, it's the kind of glory a magic-user character won't be able to partake in (unless he's really lucky and crazy). They're also excellent at missile weapons too. And more than likely, they'll also have a few tricks up their sleeves, in the form of magic items with spell-like effects. Sure, the m-u will have many more spells available, but that's what he does, and he paid the price for it by suffering through the early levels, hanging for dear life with his 1 hit point and Sleep spell. ;) And of course, he needs an extra 150,000 XPs to make it to 12th level (by that time the fighter is already into his 13th level). Another thing is that some players don't like all the complications of many tactical options. They don't play for that reason, they're there to roleplay and kill dragons & orcs. They don't see themselves as generals or tacticians, but rather as "the guy in that movie". In fact, I've known people who don't ever play magic-users or clerics because they don't like having to deal with all the spell mumbo-jumbo. And honestly, I got tired of much of the options and tactical aspect of the game too, which is why I went back to Basic/Expert edition. I was never much into the stats & rules part to begin with, even back in the day when it was all fresh and new. But now I simply don't have any patience for that. Give me fantasy and bare-bones rules, I'll handle the rest... [/QUOTE]
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