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Abstract versus concrete in games (or, why rules-light systems suck)
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<blockquote data-quote="Akrasia" data-source="post: 2327029" data-attributes="member: 23012"><p>Yeah, that is a cool word, and I used it myself in an earlier post concerning this very point. I guess this is one of the 'agreeing to disagree' points. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> </p><p></p><p>I fail to see how a rules light game like C&C (or Buffy/Angel, or ...) fails to accomplish all these goals.</p><p></p><p>One thing to keep in mind -- rules light games generally don't try to 'fine tune' each and every situation (by using lots of different circumstance modifiers, condition modifiers, etc.). They rely on more general resolution mechanisms -- and thus can be entirely consistent, but not as 'fine grained' as rules heavy systems.</p><p></p><p>Which is enough verisimilitude for me -- at least when it comes to a world of orcs, wizards, and dragons.</p><p></p><p>Incorrect.</p><p></p><p>That is covered by the 'fleeing combat' action -- it is hardly a new rule.</p><p></p><p>Yes, you're wrong. Although the PC would probably be blocked by said mooks (or the mooks would use their actions to block the PC). </p><p></p><p>But yeah, it is <em>easier</em> to disrupt spellcasters in C&C (as there is no 'combat casting' feat either). </p><p></p><p>I happen to approve of this game feature -- and the general fact that spellcasters are weaker in C&C than they are in 3e.</p><p></p><p>Well, I think I've been pretty good about telling players how difficult their proposed actions will be. </p><p></p><p></p><p>First of all, you're being completely unfair to C&C (yet again) here. There <em>are </em> clear rules for disarming (just as there are for grappling, pummeling, overbearing, etc.). See pp. 116-117.</p><p></p><p>I don't mind that you prefer 3e over C&C. I just wish you wouldn't give C&C short shrift by not actually appreciating what rules C&C <em>does</em> have! </p><p></p><p>As for things that you would like to be included that are not in C&C -- e.g. feinting -- I am sure that we could all agree to an appropriate house rule, that would subsequently be written down in our 'house rules' document for future reference.</p><p></p><p>Not really. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f60e.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":cool:" title="Cool :cool:" data-smilie="6"data-shortname=":cool:" /> </p><p></p><p>Well, the default for a task is a TN of 18. So a really 'good' lock could be anywhere from TN19 to TN 35 -- depending on how 'good' it is. (Just as the DC for a good lock could be anywhere from 20 to ... whatever the DM decides.)</p><p></p><p>Keep in mind that in C&C, PCs are assumed to <em>succeed</em> at most easy or average tasks. Rolls are only used for difficult tasks, or tasks in which the consequences of failure are considerable.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Akrasia, post: 2327029, member: 23012"] Yeah, that is a cool word, and I used it myself in an earlier post concerning this very point. I guess this is one of the 'agreeing to disagree' points. ;) I fail to see how a rules light game like C&C (or Buffy/Angel, or ...) fails to accomplish all these goals. One thing to keep in mind -- rules light games generally don't try to 'fine tune' each and every situation (by using lots of different circumstance modifiers, condition modifiers, etc.). They rely on more general resolution mechanisms -- and thus can be entirely consistent, but not as 'fine grained' as rules heavy systems. Which is enough verisimilitude for me -- at least when it comes to a world of orcs, wizards, and dragons. Incorrect. That is covered by the 'fleeing combat' action -- it is hardly a new rule. Yes, you're wrong. Although the PC would probably be blocked by said mooks (or the mooks would use their actions to block the PC). But yeah, it is [I]easier[/I] to disrupt spellcasters in C&C (as there is no 'combat casting' feat either). I happen to approve of this game feature -- and the general fact that spellcasters are weaker in C&C than they are in 3e. Well, I think I've been pretty good about telling players how difficult their proposed actions will be. First of all, you're being completely unfair to C&C (yet again) here. There [I]are [/I] clear rules for disarming (just as there are for grappling, pummeling, overbearing, etc.). See pp. 116-117. I don't mind that you prefer 3e over C&C. I just wish you wouldn't give C&C short shrift by not actually appreciating what rules C&C [I]does[/I] have! As for things that you would like to be included that are not in C&C -- e.g. feinting -- I am sure that we could all agree to an appropriate house rule, that would subsequently be written down in our 'house rules' document for future reference. Not really. :cool: Well, the default for a task is a TN of 18. So a really 'good' lock could be anywhere from TN19 to TN 35 -- depending on how 'good' it is. (Just as the DC for a good lock could be anywhere from 20 to ... whatever the DM decides.) Keep in mind that in C&C, PCs are assumed to [I]succeed[/I] at most easy or average tasks. Rolls are only used for difficult tasks, or tasks in which the consequences of failure are considerable. [/QUOTE]
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