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Message: <blockquote data-quote="emanresu" data-source="post: 6294807" data-attributes="member: 6686506">as far as sleeping opponents or "other" defenseless targets we allow 1 roll for the target to perceive, be it listen, feeling of vibration thru floor boards or the gratuitous opening of eyes right at the time of attack. This allows a roll off, the attacker is trying to sneak up and be quiet, he rolls, and the sleeper at least gets a roll. OHH there are penalties to his roll, for sure, buuut at least its a roll. This is usually a coupe de grass killing strike. Some DMs I have played with just rule it a confirmed crit.As far as those sleepers in above example they would all have zero initiative until they perceived a threat. So a rogue might be able to slaughter them in their sleep, 1 after the other, providing that they all remain asleep eg. not being alerted to any threat. The victims will have to be brought to negative hit points in 1 attack, thus being unconscious from the attack, less they flail about n scream alerting others of the threat. They cant react until their initiative, so this usually give a rogue a couple of SAs at least. There would be the surprise round and then flat footed until their initiative.AoO would not be based on stealth and delivering a killing shot (CDG) but rather based on speed, so sure if you would rule the attacker gets to attack all 4 sleepers in his threatened area all these attacks would not be quiet nor the best wollop/ damaging attack, they would just be fast. The result would be thumping and banging, "ouch that really hurt" and probably waking the 3rd n 4th sleeper and you would here the "WTF" they would more than likely be thinking.</blockquote>

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