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<blockquote data-quote="kenjib" data-source="post: 1157555" data-attributes="member: 530">Then IMO d20 Modern got it wrong too.&nbsp; Your defense is tied to your offense.&nbsp; It's how you use your weapon in many ways, including intimidating your opponent, keeping on the offensive, defining the range between you and your opponent when not using the same length of weapon, and the effectiveness of various techniques and maneuvers you know.It's action-reaction (something which D&amp;D ignores).&nbsp; Your opponent strikes in a certain way, and your defense to that allows you to counter in a different way or keeps you on the defensive, etc. etc.&nbsp; This is all about combat knowledge.&nbsp; The reflex save is used for physically dodging/avoiding things happening around you and is fundamentally different in nature.&nbsp; Part of making a skilled attack is inherently defensive in nature because you are thinking ahead several moves, like in a game of chess (if I attack this way, I might be open to a counter here, which I can counter this way, etc.).If you take two people, one with expert swordsman ability, and the other with high reflexes but little sword ability, the second guy will get skewered, gutted, beheaded, and otherwise dismembered because he has no idea what he's doing - regardless of how good he is at jumping out of the way when a boulder comes crashing down onto the road.Here is your own quote in a later post, although please feel free to clarify if you think I am taking it out of context:The Wheel of Time technique of class bonus or armor bonus only doesn't make any sense either.&nbsp; Realistically, armor is pretty much always better than no armor, no matter who you are.&nbsp; What the Wheel of Time system does is not realistic, it is cinematic and geared toward specific results - i.e. reducing the historical importance of armor to achieve cinematic qualities.&nbsp; This is fine, but if this is what you want then I think it needs to be clarified, because the implied desire of this thread seems to me to be realism.btw - I think S'mon's idea has merit too.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="kenjib, post: 1157555, member: 530"] Then IMO d20 Modern got it wrong too. Your defense is tied to your offense. It's how you use your weapon in many ways, including intimidating your opponent, keeping on the offensive, defining the range between you and your opponent when not using the same length of weapon, and the effectiveness of various techniques and maneuvers you know. It's action-reaction (something which D&D ignores). Your opponent strikes in a certain way, and your defense to that allows you to counter in a different way or keeps you on the defensive, etc. etc. This is all about combat knowledge. The reflex save is used for physically dodging/avoiding things happening around you and is fundamentally different in nature. Part of making a skilled attack is inherently defensive in nature because you are thinking ahead several moves, like in a game of chess (if I attack this way, I might be open to a counter here, which I can counter this way, etc.). If you take two people, one with expert swordsman ability, and the other with high reflexes but little sword ability, the second guy will get skewered, gutted, beheaded, and otherwise dismembered because he has no idea what he's doing - regardless of how good he is at jumping out of the way when a boulder comes crashing down onto the road. Here is your own quote in a later post, although please feel free to clarify if you think I am taking it out of context: The Wheel of Time technique of class bonus or armor bonus only doesn't make any sense either. Realistically, armor is pretty much always better than no armor, no matter who you are. What the Wheel of Time system does is not realistic, it is cinematic and geared toward specific results - i.e. reducing the historical importance of armor to achieve cinematic qualities. This is fine, but if this is what you want then I think it needs to be clarified, because the implied desire of this thread seems to me to be realism. btw - I think S'mon's idea has merit too. [/QUOTE]

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