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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Turjan" data-source="post: 1890972" data-attributes="member: 3477">White Wolf's liaison with the d20 market has considerably cooled down *shrug*. Some of the companies under the roof of their printing house fare still considerably well (e.g., Malhavoc). Anyway, your dislike of White Wolf goes a bit over the top. "Vampire" was an innovative game with a high appeal to a new target market. There's nothing wrong with that. If it were just pretense, Vampire would have long gone for good. The fact that it's still here and successful shows us that it's a viable model for a game.The rest were mistakes by TSR, as I already mentioned further above. If WotC plays to its strengths, i.e., D&D, they should be fine. Simulating the newest toy of rpg.net is - there I agree <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> - not a good idea.I think you overestimate the importance of Amber. In a recent poll here on EN World regarding our favorite non-d20 games it was not mentioned even once. It's still a game that is fairly well known, but whatever happens to Amber won't really interest many people.</blockquote>