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Message: <blockquote data-quote="FraserRonald" data-source="post: 3114842" data-attributes="member: 7892">Saying that our statements were “stupid” or “ignorant” makes me believe that a certain amount of offense was taken, as well as being offensive in and of themselves. I have difficulty with criticism couched in those terms, hence my initial reply. But I think I understand better to what you are referring, so I'd like to address this.You didn't mishear anything. We were after all, discussing a movie that had a clan of neo-pagans threatening innocents. Were we discussing “Kingdom of Heaven,” I might have said the same thing about Christians, and I likely would have used a similar statement: “Well what about the theme of a community of Christians threatening good honest folk? Would you put that in your campaign?” And I would imagine the answer would have been pretty much the same, based on the approach of the movie.Granted, I didn't come out and say “Not that there's anything wrong with neo-Pagans, because there are many religions considered neo-Pagan, and none of those that I know of practice human sacrifice.” I had hoped that the audience would understand that we are talking in game terms, similar to the approach taken by “Blood & Relics,” a books that also looked at religion in gaming. Perhaps I missed it, but was there a Christian uproar as the book pushes misconceptions about the Christian religion? I know I didn't find it offensive as I understood it was a game product. I found “The Da Vinci Code” offensive, but for other reasons completely!It might be a pet peeve of yours, but terms like “incredibly stupid, or at the very least stereotypically ignorant” aren't going to help foster dispassionate discussion.Part of the problem is that the term “pagan” is very non-specific, I would say generic. I didn't say “Well what about the theme of a community of Wiccans threatening good honest folk?” or  “What about the theme of a community of Taara Religionists threatening good honest folk?” or “What about the theme of a community of Unitarian Universalists threatening good honest folk?”The term pagan simply means a non-Abrahamic religion (meaning not following the shared traditions of the Jews, Christians, and Muslims), and therefore does include the Sikhs (as well as Hindus and, technically, even Buddhists!). So rather than relating neo-pagan to Islam, it would be closer to saying “monotheists.” That's why I wasn't particularly careful about its use (other than trying to point to a less than serious approach by including the term “good honest folk,” which I didn't think anyone could take seriously). Would I use a similar statement if we were talking about “the Siege?” Yeah, I likely would, but I think our approach would have been more careful. But if I had said “What about the theme of a community of monotheists threatening good honest folk?” I don't think we would have felt restrained in any way.As a Christian, I am part of a demographic that is regularly ridiculed or stereotyped in the media. But, see, Christian is a pretty wide term. While possibly numerically superior in adherents, Christianity as a term does not cover the wide variety and disparate practices that the term Pagan does. Still, if someone in their game podcast mentioned the theme of a group of apocalyptic Christian survivalists threatening good honest folk, I can't say that I would be offended. While the podcasters might be pushing a stereotype of weird or scary fringe Christians, I think that could make a viable game.I certainly hope words have an impact. I'm a writer after all. Still, I don't believe our discussion of using generic neo-Pagans matches the utterances to which you refer. Basically, any discussion of any villain is going to impact on some individuals. I guess it boils down to you believe that any mention of bad pagans furthers discrimination against all religions that might be considered under that term, and I believe that using umbrella terms like pagan, monotheistic, or even totalitarian doesn't increase the discrimination against religions or individuals that might or might not be considered by some to be covered by those terms. I would add that I would hope our audience is smart enough to make the differentiation between evil pagans in games and normal followers of those religions that would be covered by the term pagan.Finally, I would say that if there is any group on the face of the planet outside of adherents of paganism that would not fall into stereotyping paganism, it would be gamers. I've actually only met individuals who have self-identified as pagans through gaming.</blockquote>

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