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Message: <blockquote data-quote="DracoSuave" data-source="post: 5343038" data-attributes="member: 71571">I know it seems kinda hinky, so I did some further examination.Double weapon is not a weapon property.  So using a double weapon with an implement attack is perfectly okay.  'Defensive', 'stout', 'off-hand' are, however, weapon properties.  That means that while you use an implement power, they cannot in any way apply to that power.Stout allows you to use the weapon as a two-handed weapon.  This creates the odd corner case where a Fighter weapon talent -stops- applying to a quarterstaff because you took Staff Fighting.  Double Weapons are a separate class from two-handed weapons, and are treated as one-handed weapons.  It's the stout property that makes two-handed weapon talent work with them.  Turn this off, no two-handed weapon talent. Defensive 99.99% of the time doesn't either, but if you happen to attack yourself with your own power (for whatever reason) you do not get the benefit of defensive.  But defensive applies to AC anyways, so it's not like it mattered in the first place.Off-hand doesn't grant a benefit to implements (you can wield two implements unlike weapons) so it's lack of applying doesn't change what you can do with a double weapon like it would with Weapon attacks.  However, that means that because it does not exist for the implement attack, Tempest Fighting technique cannot apply.-------------To sum up:Double weapon is a weapon class, not a weapon property, so it works fine with implement attacks.  Off-hand is a weapon property, and so it cannot work with implement attacks.  You cannot use weapon properties with implement attacks.Clear?</blockquote>

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