D&D 5E Ack! Starting Next tonight - anything I should know last minute? (Edit: first impressions)

- One final comment. It seems that even with bounded accuracy, the AC of many monsters in the DMG is way too low. It seems odd that a 1st level cleric with chainmail and shield can have an 18 AC (which a PC did), while a huge black dragon has a 16 AC.
That kind of makes sense, though. It's a very large target, and that makes it easy to hit. Third edition gave Size categories different modifiers. Huge had a modifier of -2.

Now, that dragon should probably have some kind of DR or maybe even resistance to non-magical melee damage. But it's going to be really easy to connect with.
 

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That kind of makes sense, though. It's a very large target, and that makes it easy to hit. Third edition gave Size categories different modifiers. Huge had a modifier of -2.

Now, that dragon should probably have some kind of DR or maybe even resistance to non-magical melee damage. But it's going to be really easy to connect with.

But AC isn't just "hitting" a target, but penetrating its armor/defense - that is, causing damage. If it was just about hitting a target, a housefly would have an absurdly high AC and the tarrasque would be pretty low.

Now what you posit could be a valid way of doing things - making AC be more of a "Defense Class," which would make it more like Reflex. But I don't think that is how it works in any edition of D&D - unless I'm missing something with Next, and they're going with a AC/DR differentiation. I'm not opposed to that, but it would need to be across the board and would seem to add a layer of complexity which goes against the "simple core" design principle.
 

- One final comment. It seems that even with bounded accuracy, the AC of many monsters in the DMG is way too low. It seems odd that a 1st level cleric with chainmail and shield can have an 18 AC (which a PC did), while a huge black dragon has a 16 AC.

yes I hope they learn from 2e

2e had a 20 pt spread for 99% of ACs, and a 22 at most that other 1% of the time... in 5e that would mean considering lower for bounded accuracy...

low level (1-6) seeing ACs 12-15, Mid levels (7-12) seeing ACs 16-21 and high level (13-19) seeing monsters with ACs 22-25 and for epic play (20+) seeing an AC of 26-30... with some 'god like' threats maybe caping at 31 or 32..

I agree BBEG having an AC that can be gotten at 1st or 2nd level seems wrong...
 

Now what you posit could be a valid way of doing things - making AC be more of a "Defense Class," which would make it more like Reflex. But I don't think that is how it works in any edition of D&D - unless I'm missing something with Next, and they're going with a AC/DR differentiation. I'm not opposed to that, but it would need to be across the board and would seem to add a layer of complexity which goes against the "simple core" design principle.
It's been both at times. At least since 3E. Where 3E had various ACs for different situations (touch AC, flatfooted AC, etc.), Next has only the one. And spells like Ray of Frost that would have been against Touch AC in 3E now just use the normal AC in 5E.

So, AC in Next is pretty much an all-inclusive defense trait. It's avoidance, armor, and everything all rolled into one.

edit: I guess I should add that I think the ACs of monsters across the board are probably too low, especially at higher levels, which is where you'd see the dragons. Even Asmodeus only has a 17 AC. The stated design intention, though, is to allow a big group of level 1 (or level 0?) NPCs be able to take down a dragon, with hit points being the major factor. I think that's fine for most monsters, but I think it should be harder at level 1 to hit the level 10 dragon. It shouldn't just be a matter of not being able to take off enough hit points. It should be a problem of not being able to get the blow to land in the right spot, and so on.

This also could be a problem with the fact that we never got to see monsters in anything close to a final draft. Easy-to-kill monsters were a talking point all through the playtest process, and WotC made their initial pass at them in the very last packet. So, hopefully, we'll see some more challenging things in the bestiary when the game actually releases along with some adventurer fodder like kobolds.
 
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- The game runs like a dream. Wow - just so quick,
- Bounded accuracy took some convincing. I too was a bit leery of it at first, but now love it.
- Three words: theater of mind. I forgot what I was missing.

My friend, you just summed up the D&D Next "hat trick" that makes it my favorite edition by a mile:

The D&D Next Hat Trick
1. Speed of Play
2. Bounded Accuracy
3. Theater of the Mind
 

I think there is little reason to worry about the monsters at this point. We haven't had a real update to monster design in several packets and they told us that they were aware of the problem and would be getting to it.

I've heard some criticism about waiting so late in the process to "fix the math" but as an (currently amateur) designer (I'm sure some of our professionals can chime in about their perspectives) I can say that what they have told us about why they were waiting to worry about the math is a completely accurate phenomenon in my experience. If you spend time getting the math right, and then realize that the system you just spent time getting the math right on isn't going to be in the final game, that is a bunch of time you just unnecessarily wasted. All you have to be able to do is see that the math can work at the concept stage. The details are for later when you know where you want to take things.

The best guess is that they began seriously working on the math right after (or shortly before) the release of the final packets. I have a lot of confidence that the monster math is going to work. I'm only concerned that they might decide to go arbitrary rather than giving monsters the same proficiency bonuses as the PCs (which works great!)

But the refinements they've mentioned since the final packet have shown me that they are doing some quality work (even when I have to voice my opinion on stuff I think they missed, like the uselessness of medium armor...) so I'm not too concerned about all the little details. Any cracks and seams in the playtest rules are likely to be patched up handily.
 

My friend, you just summed up the D&D Next "hat trick" that makes it my favorite edition by a mile:

The D&D Next Hat Trick
1. Speed of Play
2. Bounded Accuracy
3. Theater of the Mind

Yes, me too - or at least it looks promising in terms of being my favorite edition so far.

I would add a 4th, though: Freeform Flexibility. What I mean by this is the ease of applying Ability + Proficiency vs. a specific challenge. This isn't all that different from previous editions, but what I like is that the free-form part is built in.

A #5 would be advantage/disadvantage, which is a nice little fun fiddly bit.

And of course I just love the return of classic level 1-9 spells, but I should just stop.
 

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