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Acrobatics vs. Athletics
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<blockquote data-quote="Doctor Proctor" data-source="post: 4661033" data-attributes="member: 78547"><p>One of the problems that I have with the idea of substituting Acrobatics checks for actions that fall under Athletics is that you never see the reverse. When 20 STR Fighter with Athletics wants to make a leap from a 20' ledge he shouldn't get to say "Well, because I'm so strong my legs can obviously take the brunt of the force of the fall, and so I should be able to make an Athletics check to avoid damage". I would think that most of the Rogue players would have a problem with that. So why should it be excepted to do the reverse?</p><p></p><p>In the case of the 20' ledge thing, both Acrobatics and Athletics can get you out of it. A Rogue will merely step off the ledge and land rolling, stand up, dust himself off and take no damage. The brawny Fighter is going to say "Yeah, forget that" and instead just free climb down the sheer rock face using nothing but brute strength to grip the tiny handholds.</p><p></p><p>This is why they're two different abilities, is to allow for multiple solutions for different situations. If the Fighter and the Rogue are stuck in a pit, for example, then the Fighter will have to take the lead here. He can climb out, drop a rope and hoist the Rogue up if need be. When it comes time thread through a gauntlet while avoiding guillotines and fire traps, that would be the dextrous Rogue's job. He'll be able to thread through it with twirls and somersaults in order to get to the end and hit the switch that turns the gauntlet off.</p><p></p><p>Constantly watering down Athletics by allowing Acrobatics checks just makes the Rogue the star of the show while taking away from one of the few non-combat the Defenders can do to contribute. Rogues and Rangers tend to be the skill monkeys anyway, so they really get to shine during skill challenges and non-combat situations. Athletics is one of the ways that a good DM can get the Defenders involved by allowing them the chance to contribute occasionally. Throw in something something like a 30 foot pit that needs to be jumped over, and that's all about the Fighter. Or a big wall to climb so that he can throw down a ladder rope for the rest of the party. If you're just gonna going to make it so that the Rogue can do these things, then what's the point of the Fighter even paying attention during the non-combat portions of the game? (And there have actually been several times in my game where I've just gone out and had a smoke during some of the non-combat stuff for exactly that reason, because there's nothing for me to do because everyone else is better at the required skills than I am.)</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Doctor Proctor, post: 4661033, member: 78547"] One of the problems that I have with the idea of substituting Acrobatics checks for actions that fall under Athletics is that you never see the reverse. When 20 STR Fighter with Athletics wants to make a leap from a 20' ledge he shouldn't get to say "Well, because I'm so strong my legs can obviously take the brunt of the force of the fall, and so I should be able to make an Athletics check to avoid damage". I would think that most of the Rogue players would have a problem with that. So why should it be excepted to do the reverse? In the case of the 20' ledge thing, both Acrobatics and Athletics can get you out of it. A Rogue will merely step off the ledge and land rolling, stand up, dust himself off and take no damage. The brawny Fighter is going to say "Yeah, forget that" and instead just free climb down the sheer rock face using nothing but brute strength to grip the tiny handholds. This is why they're two different abilities, is to allow for multiple solutions for different situations. If the Fighter and the Rogue are stuck in a pit, for example, then the Fighter will have to take the lead here. He can climb out, drop a rope and hoist the Rogue up if need be. When it comes time thread through a gauntlet while avoiding guillotines and fire traps, that would be the dextrous Rogue's job. He'll be able to thread through it with twirls and somersaults in order to get to the end and hit the switch that turns the gauntlet off. Constantly watering down Athletics by allowing Acrobatics checks just makes the Rogue the star of the show while taking away from one of the few non-combat the Defenders can do to contribute. Rogues and Rangers tend to be the skill monkeys anyway, so they really get to shine during skill challenges and non-combat situations. Athletics is one of the ways that a good DM can get the Defenders involved by allowing them the chance to contribute occasionally. Throw in something something like a 30 foot pit that needs to be jumped over, and that's all about the Fighter. Or a big wall to climb so that he can throw down a ladder rope for the rest of the party. If you're just gonna going to make it so that the Rogue can do these things, then what's the point of the Fighter even paying attention during the non-combat portions of the game? (And there have actually been several times in my game where I've just gone out and had a smoke during some of the non-combat stuff for exactly that reason, because there's nothing for me to do because everyone else is better at the required skills than I am.) [/QUOTE]
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