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<blockquote data-quote="Lanefan" data-source="post: 7797681" data-attributes="member: 29398">The orc-and-elf example has one slight problem: both are most likely expecting things will - or very much could - end in bloodshed; meaning both are almost certainly ready for battle and each is highly unlikely to be caught off guard by the other.The situations we've otherwise been talking about, however, don't include this factor.&nbsp; If I'm playing an Assassin, for example, and my unsuspecting target is at a garden party to which I've also been invited, the target isn't likely to be ready for battle when I slide up beside him and sink my shiv into his side.&nbsp; This is the sort of situation that brings about the when-does-iniative-start questions - does it start before I attack, when I attack, after I attack, or not until later when someone notices the attack has occurred (by which time I might not be around to further participate, having made good my escape)?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Lanefan, post: 7797681, member: 29398"] The orc-and-elf example has one slight problem: both are most likely expecting things will - or very much could - end in bloodshed; meaning both are almost certainly ready for battle and each is highly unlikely to be caught off guard by the other. The situations we've otherwise been talking about, however, don't include this factor. If I'm playing an Assassin, for example, and my unsuspecting target is at a garden party to which I've also been invited, the target isn't likely to be ready for battle when I slide up beside him and sink my shiv into his side. This is the sort of situation that brings about the when-does-iniative-start questions - does it start before I attack, when I attack, after I attack, or not until later when someone notices the attack has occurred (by which time I might not be around to further participate, having made good my escape)? [/QUOTE]

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