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<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 7833151" data-attributes="member: 996"><p>OK, there is that. It is a simple, binary, pass/fail in which the player is a passive participant. </p><p>5e combat (particularly the "I attack" hit/damage hp ablation aspect) /is/ designed to be fast, and once you're designing a system to be fast, you've prettymuch accepted that it's not really meant to be exciting or interesting in its own right, that, rather, it's an impediment to the fun offered by other aspects of the game, that you need to minimize, so those fun aspects can emerge. </p><p></p><p>Making it fun could mean adding detail & depth and letting it take longer, or it could mean changing the stakes or even just making it less passive.</p><p></p><p> Oh, quite familiar, thanks. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /></p><p>It was, oddly, actually a more complex way of resolving the same things attacks & dmg/hps do - dramatic combat with a hero that has at least some 'plot armor.' (Or literal armor.)</p><p></p><p>It was workable in a dice pool system (borked as it was at the time) but, doesn't work well in d20 because contested checks are super-swingy.</p><p></p><p>Which has it's downsides, too. In Storyteller, there wasn't an expectation of frequent combat, and certain character types - Celerity Vampires, high-Rage Werewolves, Time Mages - could so utterly dominate in combat that combat scenes could be pretty one-sided and not involve the whole troupe. </p><p>Conversely, in D&D, combats are expected, 6-8 per day, 13-20 per level, over 20 levels. If each of them is even a /little/ swingy, a little higher-stakes, PCs would die so consistently you couldn't finish a campaign (at least, not with the PCs that started it), even with Raise Dead on the table.</p><p></p><p>Like I said, though, gets too swingy. What you could do, though, is a players-always-roll variant. That is, when the PCs attack or casts a spells, they roll to hit or overcome the targets FORT/REF/WILL/whatever, when the PCs are attacked, they roll to save, block/parry/soak, or whatever works for the type of attack and drama of the scene.</p><p></p><p>Abstract hit points do that OK, and they do it in a predictable enough way that players can take their characters through hundreds of combats with a real chance of retiring them still alive, or at least, not having been Raised too many times. The simple idea of 4e Bloodied - when reduced to half hps you've finally taken a physical/visible wound - kept in 5e as a wound-narration side-bar, is workable enough. There's all sorts of flourishes you could add: comparing damage to total or remaining hps to determine the severity of the wound, making armor-modified CON saves to differentiate between hits and pseudo-hits, etc...</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 7833151, member: 996"] OK, there is that. It is a simple, binary, pass/fail in which the player is a passive participant. 5e combat (particularly the "I attack" hit/damage hp ablation aspect) /is/ designed to be fast, and once you're designing a system to be fast, you've prettymuch accepted that it's not really meant to be exciting or interesting in its own right, that, rather, it's an impediment to the fun offered by other aspects of the game, that you need to minimize, so those fun aspects can emerge. Making it fun could mean adding detail & depth and letting it take longer, or it could mean changing the stakes or even just making it less passive. Oh, quite familiar, thanks. ;) It was, oddly, actually a more complex way of resolving the same things attacks & dmg/hps do - dramatic combat with a hero that has at least some 'plot armor.' (Or literal armor.) It was workable in a dice pool system (borked as it was at the time) but, doesn't work well in d20 because contested checks are super-swingy. Which has it's downsides, too. In Storyteller, there wasn't an expectation of frequent combat, and certain character types - Celerity Vampires, high-Rage Werewolves, Time Mages - could so utterly dominate in combat that combat scenes could be pretty one-sided and not involve the whole troupe. Conversely, in D&D, combats are expected, 6-8 per day, 13-20 per level, over 20 levels. If each of them is even a /little/ swingy, a little higher-stakes, PCs would die so consistently you couldn't finish a campaign (at least, not with the PCs that started it), even with Raise Dead on the table. Like I said, though, gets too swingy. What you could do, though, is a players-always-roll variant. That is, when the PCs attack or casts a spells, they roll to hit or overcome the targets FORT/REF/WILL/whatever, when the PCs are attacked, they roll to save, block/parry/soak, or whatever works for the type of attack and drama of the scene. Abstract hit points do that OK, and they do it in a predictable enough way that players can take their characters through hundreds of combats with a real chance of retiring them still alive, or at least, not having been Raised too many times. The simple idea of 4e Bloodied - when reduced to half hps you've finally taken a physical/visible wound - kept in 5e as a wound-narration side-bar, is workable enough. There's all sorts of flourishes you could add: comparing damage to total or remaining hps to determine the severity of the wound, making armor-modified CON saves to differentiate between hits and pseudo-hits, etc... [/QUOTE]
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