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Message: <blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 5114166" data-attributes="member: 82106">Basically you're onto the whole nut of the thing there Starfox. There's NOTHING wrong with the active/passive perception system. It is a matter of DMs understanding how to use it in the best way.Where you have something (trap, secret door, etc) there are 3 possibilities essentially. Either the thing can (and thus will) be spotted by the passive perception of a party member. These kinds of 'hidden things' are only "hidden for dramatic effect" as they aren't really hidden at all. This could be like Starfox says a tactical trap where the thing really just serves as some sort of terrain or the entire point of it is to make the rogue disarm it while a fight is going on or make it a choice to disarm, avoid, or just bull through.The second situation is where an active check by the party's high Perception spotter will find the hidden thing. This is probably your more normal trap that might show up on its own or as part of an encounter where it is intended to be dealt with while its active (a magic crossbow turret that acts pretty much like a monster that COULD be nerfed if a PC is smart). These types of traps may well be foreshadowed (IE there are skeletons of past victims or blast marks or whatever nearby that clue the PCs in to make an active check). Otherwise they could be on a door or some other area that the PCs normally will check anyway and if they are dumb and don't check the door for traps then they get the booby prize.The third, rare, situation is something so well hidden it cannot be detected by any means at the party's disposal. A trap of this kind would be rare. It is a fait accompli that the characters will set it off except possibly by sheer luck. It could be used as a plot element of some sort that is meant to be found later by other means. Maybe a secret entrance used by a monster or something that later explains how the monster escaped or entered an otherwise secured area. Some special magic or ritual could later reveal it as part of an expostulation or the party could end up on the other side of the secret door where it is obvious and they suddenly solve a mystery it caused. An unfindable trap could serve a similar purpose or it could be actually deployed BY the PCs as a defensive measure or something.So the only issue with this whole perception thing is for the DM to understand these three cases and what they are good for and use them creatively in adventures to achieve his goals.Easily spotted traps can be used to give the PCs hazards to deal with or just for 'flavor' or to show that an area is dangerous. Findable traps are the standard type that punish PCs that don't look for traps. Unfindable ones are plot devices.Within the findable traps category you might make some that are very difficult to find with an active check and others that are pretty easy but could still be missed. The former type will reward repeated searching but you will need to foreshadow them in order to make it obvious that more searching is a good idea. The later type are there often to let the rogue 'shine'.</blockquote>

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