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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Colmarr" data-source="post: 5121101" data-attributes="member: 59182">The obvious explanation is that Perception and Insight are skills that have implied meaning as soon as the DM calls for a roll of the die. PCs don't need to roll Perception or Insight unless there's something to perceive. As such, a DM-initiated roll carries meaning even if the roll is failed. The same is not true (or is true to a much lesser extent) of the other skills you mentioned.   Of the ways* that that meaning can be combatted: <ol> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">there is no passive skill use - PCs automatically fail Perception or Insight checks unless they actively choose to take them;</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">there is passive skill use - there is no roll and it assumes the PC rolled a 1 on their skill check;</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">there is passive skill use - there is a roll and the DM throws in fake Perception and Insight checks to keep the PCs on their toes; or</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">there is passive skill use - the DM rolls all Perception and Insight checks before the session</li> </ol>WotC's choice of implementing passive Perception and passive Insight seems to me to be by far the best solution. YMMV. * (of course there may be others, but those are the four that sprang immediately to mind).  This seems to be a different argument to the one you put forward at the start of the thread**. You initially argued (paraphrased; correct me if I'm wrong) that passive perception/insight are bad because they are too intrusive to the DM meta.  It has since been pointed out that the same accusation can be levelled at passive history (ie. take 10), and now your argument seems to centre on the fact that the rules differ between Perception/Insight and the rest once an encounter begins.  To be clear, are we now confining the discussion to how things work during an encounter? ** which isn't per se a bad thing, but it can muddy the waters.</blockquote>

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