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Message: <blockquote data-quote="CapnZapp" data-source="post: 7990906" data-attributes="member: 12731">Tried going back through the quotes... was your question "if they liked the fact that their min-max mindset / play style was ineffectual" by any chance?If so, my players (not Celt's) are obviously miffed it wasn't easily possible to minmax the naughty word out of the system.But that hasn't meant they have cooled on the system. Not yet anyway.My players are historically all about minmaxing the individual character, party optimization be damned - exactly the kind of approach enabled and amply rewarded by 3E/PF1*... and the approach PF2 simply laughs evilly at <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />It will be interesting to see if they are going to learn anything from the fact that "everybody" says PF2 is all about minmaxing the party tactics. That is, minmaxing what happens at the table rather than before you sit down at the table. I guess I won't know for sure until the party composition changes, though (such as when it's time to generate a new party).*) 3.5 is probably the favorite game, all categories, for at least two of the players, precisely because it allows for an utterly unchecked power trip, if you only know how to absorb thousands of pages of rules, and are entirely unfazed about cobbling together a dozen prestige classes and yet calling that a "character"... Yes, we're talking about the same game that I as the DM would put as my number #1 most horrible spot. d20 is sadomasochistic that way...</blockquote>

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