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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Herremann the Wise" data-source="post: 5465262" data-attributes="member: 11300">This is an interesting plan and looks like it would have played very well. I've never liked the "stacks on" element of skill challenges that always seemed to happen with our group - it always ended up quite unconvincing. I think however, this is partly because of some players who didn't weave their ideas into the "story" but also where the DM forced a situation into a skill challenge when perhaps they shouldn't have - a case of mis-using the "new shiny". It took our group a long time to get skill challenges "right" and even then, there are at least two players in our group who still don't really get them. Perhaps as well (as you highlight), when you expand the the parameters of the conservative skill challenge system, you can get some interesting and satisfying results.Rubbish and poppycock! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />A 4th level Divination spell is a tool similar to any other providing a "4e skill challenge success" if you will. It was never meant to give a definitive solution to a problem and was laziness on the part of the DM if it did. Many modules and many DMs created their own subsystems to work out what would happen in situations similar to your example above. Make sure the vital clue is given (or make sure there are at least three viable back-ups) but then let it play out with numerous different possiblities based upon the actions of the different players in the drama.4e formalized this process (and eventually made it clear that you could play around with the structure if necessary). I still think that the best skill challenges are the ones that never draw attention to themselves and that are more loosely organised. That may not work for everyone though.Best RegardsHerremann the Wise</blockquote>

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