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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 6141200" data-attributes="member: 22779">See, again, I just don't see it.&nbsp; Compare character sheets for a moment.&nbsp; Hand a 2e player a 3e character sheet and he cannot read it.&nbsp; He will have absolutely no idea where any of the numbers come from.&nbsp; Why does my 14 strength give me a +2/hit and damage?&nbsp; What are my chances to bend bars?&nbsp; Why does my 18 Int only give me 4 skills, not 7.&nbsp; Where is my chance to learn new spells?&nbsp; On and on and on.&nbsp; Even in Chargen, nothing is the same.&nbsp; The proficiency system in 2e is replaced by 3e skills which work entirely differently and are generated entirely differently.&nbsp; Never minding the lack of weapon skills.&nbsp; Feats are completely new in 3e and did not exist at all in 2e.&nbsp; Virtually every spell works differently in 3e than it did in 2e since the area of effect rules are completely different.&nbsp; Combat isn't even in the same ballpark.&nbsp; 2e had no need for miniatures.&nbsp; 3e is based heavily on the grid.&nbsp; Never minding special maneuvers like disarm or grapple.&nbsp; The monsters are completely rewritten mechanically.&nbsp; By and large, 3e monsters do about 3 times more damage and have about twice (or more) hit points.&nbsp; Adventure writing is very different.Now, move over to 3e to 4e.&nbsp; The character sheets are largely the same.&nbsp; Stats work exactly the same way.&nbsp; Combat rules are virtually identical with a few notable changes like 1-2-1 vs 1-1-1 or grapple rules.&nbsp; Chargen is pretty much identical.&nbsp; The only real difference is 4e added powers.&nbsp; Skills, stats, everything else is the same.&nbsp; A 3e player can look at a 4e character sheet and understand it without reading any of the rule books.&nbsp; The primary difference between 3e and 4e is flavour.&nbsp; 4e changed a LOT of the flavour.&nbsp; Totally agree there.&nbsp; But mechanically?&nbsp; 3e and 4e are most definitely d20 games.&nbsp; Mechanically, 2e is very different from 3e, to the point where you cannot sit a 2e player down at a 3e table and expect him to be able to generate a character on his own and start play.&nbsp; A 3e player sitting at a 4e table?&nbsp; Should take about ten minutes to get him up to speed.I guess it depends on what you mean by &quot;different&quot;.&nbsp; If you mean different in flavor, then I might be able to see what you are talking about.&nbsp; Although 3e is miles away from 2e in flavour as well.&nbsp; 2e was heavily based on story games of the 90's.&nbsp; The idea that you are creating a shared story.&nbsp; In that sense, 2e is closer to 4e.&nbsp; 3e was much more heavily influenced by 1e.&nbsp; The whole &quot;back to the dungeon&quot; approach.&nbsp; Strongly gamist with a flavouring of sim on top.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 6141200, member: 22779"] See, again, I just don't see it. Compare character sheets for a moment. Hand a 2e player a 3e character sheet and he cannot read it. He will have absolutely no idea where any of the numbers come from. Why does my 14 strength give me a +2/hit and damage? What are my chances to bend bars? Why does my 18 Int only give me 4 skills, not 7. Where is my chance to learn new spells? On and on and on. Even in Chargen, nothing is the same. The proficiency system in 2e is replaced by 3e skills which work entirely differently and are generated entirely differently. Never minding the lack of weapon skills. Feats are completely new in 3e and did not exist at all in 2e. Virtually every spell works differently in 3e than it did in 2e since the area of effect rules are completely different. Combat isn't even in the same ballpark. 2e had no need for miniatures. 3e is based heavily on the grid. Never minding special maneuvers like disarm or grapple. The monsters are completely rewritten mechanically. By and large, 3e monsters do about 3 times more damage and have about twice (or more) hit points. Adventure writing is very different. Now, move over to 3e to 4e. The character sheets are largely the same. Stats work exactly the same way. Combat rules are virtually identical with a few notable changes like 1-2-1 vs 1-1-1 or grapple rules. Chargen is pretty much identical. The only real difference is 4e added powers. Skills, stats, everything else is the same. A 3e player can look at a 4e character sheet and understand it without reading any of the rule books. The primary difference between 3e and 4e is flavour. 4e changed a LOT of the flavour. Totally agree there. But mechanically? 3e and 4e are most definitely d20 games. Mechanically, 2e is very different from 3e, to the point where you cannot sit a 2e player down at a 3e table and expect him to be able to generate a character on his own and start play. A 3e player sitting at a 4e table? Should take about ten minutes to get him up to speed. I guess it depends on what you mean by "different". If you mean different in flavor, then I might be able to see what you are talking about. Although 3e is miles away from 2e in flavour as well. 2e was heavily based on story games of the 90's. The idea that you are creating a shared story. In that sense, 2e is closer to 4e. 3e was much more heavily influenced by 1e. The whole "back to the dungeon" approach. Strongly gamist with a flavouring of sim on top. [/QUOTE]

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