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Message: <blockquote data-quote="GreyLord" data-source="post: 6142239" data-attributes="member: 4348">4e and 3e use the same ability tables.  everything over 11 gives a +1 every two ability points higher.2e uses a DRASTICALLY different ability table.4e/3e use the D20 for skills, combat, and intiative on an ascending rate (higher is better).2e and previous editions did not.  In fact, D20 is NOT the base except for combat rolls, and even some of those don't use the D20.  It utilizes percentage for thief skills, skills are NOT part of the system but are optional (this is especially true of D&D and AD&D 1e, 2e still labeled them as optional), and hence many times you use an ability check instead of a skill check at DM fiat, and AC and Saves decrease for rolls along with THACO.  D&D and AD&D core mechanics were not the unified mechanic of 3e.3e and 4e both use that core of a unified mechanic which is absent in previous editions.  That is the core of the system of D20.  When you look at all the D20 games they have certain core items in common, and 3e and 4e share that core, while AD&D, D&D and those editions prior to 3e do not.The problem people see isn't the core mechanic so much as the presentation.  That's why they argue so hard that 4e is different from 3e when in truth, it's not.  It's actually really easy for a slight change to 4e (getting rid of powers) and replacing it with their 3e equivalents (better feats and the spell system) to make 4e basically a 3e type game.  The insistence of WotC that 3e was bad bad, and 4e was the new good good, is what made people believe there was a vast difference and all this ridiculous battling between the 3e'ers and 4e'ers.  Once you get outside the core (powers, spellcasting, etc) that's when you see many differences.Heck, even with the different XP advancements both even use a unified XP advancement scheme (just like PF is different, but uses a unified advancement scheme...etc).I probably find just as many differences between PF and 3e as 4e and PF...the difference between why people accept PF as the continuation of the 3e line though...is it's all in presentation.(and yes, I am a rabid PF player currently).</blockquote>

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