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Message: <blockquote data-quote="rounser" data-source="post: 4834704" data-attributes="member: 1106">It's not shenanigans because when people look at 3E in hopes of simplifying it/adding DM fiat/speeding it up/"oldschoolifying" it, then systems which represent large chunks of 3E such as AoOs, skills and feats head the wishlist of what should be first on the chopping block.And this is based on threads still on the front page.  Yes, you can hack away 3E grapple with limited effect, but I'd pause to hack away feats (if for no reason than you'd better give the fighter something else if you're going to take away so much of his mojo, or be prepared for a horde of barbarians.  Oh and what happens to the ranger?  Magic item creation?  The thief's weapon finesse? etc).AD&D lacks such problems for the most part because it's pretty lean already, and where it does have some fat (e.g. weapons vs armour) those rules are either explicitly marked as optional or not tightly integrated.  To take a similar pound of flesh from AD&D you'd have to start hacking away spells, thief abilities, or the like, and there's not much desire from even house rulers to do that IME.What people are saying is that they ignored AD&D's inconsistent initiative and surprise rules and the more arcane esoterica like psionics or weapons vs armour and played it like BECMI.  This is not commensurate with ripping out 3E's highly integrated subsystems, no matter how you spin it, and that's what people talking about houseruling 3E say they are intending to do next when they're through with tossing out the grappling rules.</blockquote>

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