AD&D/OSRIC: How did initiative work?

[Mannahnin]

To prove a point, here is Addict without examples of play and all the painstaking reference cut out. 4 Pages.

Nice work!

I read DMG page 66 as saying that weapon length applies when closing to melee whether charging or not. So longer weapon always strikes first in the first round of melee in either event. (Which accords with my IRL fencing and LARP experience). Looks like your read is that it only matters if a charge is involved?

 

[Willie the Duck]

Also the "20 page" ADDICT document is a joke. Half the page is just empty whitespace and the non PHB/DMG references are from the example of play. And half of it is another example of play section.

I wouldn't say the document is a joke. Including examples in a how-to guide is not exactly against the spirit or purpose of the thing. I think we could get Snarf to write 200 pages on AD&D initiative, and it hardly be an exhaustive examination (but nor would the length of the essay establish how complicated the subject matter covered truly is). I'd instead frame it as using the fact that the document happens to be 20 pages indicate the incredible complexity of the subject being covered is a conclusion unsupported by the evidence provided.

 

[Argyle King]

I appreciate the active discourse and response.

My knowledge of AD&D is very limited.
I recently had the good fortune to be given some old modules and supplements. Around the same time, I became more aware of OSRIC.

I imagine that surprised and initiative might not be too terrible once I got the hang of it. Though, it's different-enough from modern D&D that seeking the wisdom of those who have more familiarity with AD&D has been a valuable step in better understanding what I am reading.

 

[Divine2021]

No two people can 100% agree on how AD&D initiative worked, but here are my 2 coppers:

After surprise is resolved (that is a WHOLE other post) spell casters must declare their spells.

Both sides rolled a d6, generally high wins initiative and goes first, with the understanding that movement is outside of the initiative process (if you want to move, you can start at segment 1, even if you lost initiative).

EXCEPT>>>>
If a missile weapon user is firing at a spell caster, and lost initiative, the spell caster must still compare their casting time against their own initiative roll. If the casting time is greater than the initiative roll, the missile hits first. If the casting time is less than the initiative roll, then spell goes first. Tied initiative goes to the missile attacker.

If a spell caster is casting against another caster, compare casting times, with lower going first. If casting times are equal, default to initiative order. If CT's are equal, and initiative order is tied, spells are simultaneous.

If a melee attacker is charging a spell caster (melee range is considered within 10 feet in the dungeon and 10 yards outdoors), you must compare the movement time in segments to the casting time. If movement is closed to within 10' before the casting time, melee goes first. If movement is closed to 10' on the casting time segment (3 segments of movement against a 3 segment spell) then default to initiative order. If initiative is tied, it is simultaneous.

If a spell caster is trying to cast WITHIN melee, and the melee attacker lost initiative, determine the absolute value of the Weapon Speed Factor minus the losing initiative roll. If the absolute value is higher than the casting time, the spell goes first. If the ABS value is less than the CT, the melee attack goes first. If initiative is tied, just compare the WSF to the CT, lower goes first.

When it is melee vs. melee, standard initiative is the default. UNLESS one player has multiple attacks, in which case that attacker always goes first AND last, regardless of initiative. If BOTH have multiple attacks, the initiative winner goes first and third, and the loser goes second and fourth. If there is a third extra attack, it goes last.

Melee v. melee when there is no multi-attacks, and the initiative is tied, defaults to Weapon Speed Factors, lower goes first. If the difference between WSF's are large enough, the faster weapon can get multiple attacks.

During a charge, initiative is not used - the longer weapon goes first.

Holy heck this is complicated!

 

[ThrorII]

Holy heck this is complicated!

Yes....and no.
If magic isn't involved, it is a simple d6 IGOUGO situation.

Magic (and Gary's obsession with resolving ties) complicates it somewhat.

Even with magic, it only becomes an issue if the caster WINS initiative.

With melee, it kind of becomes a codified common sense approach.

It has a lot of moving parts, but if a DM knows his stuff, it can be resolved pretty quickly.

That being said, back in the early 80s we just used d6 high goes first (a la OD&D, the PHB, and B/X).