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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
AD&D players and referees, what do you think of ascending AC?
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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 9272248" data-attributes="member: 4937"><p>There isn't really any need for a large number of tables. Third edition effectively reduced it down to 3 tables. Fighters use the same table they did in 1e AD&D using the variant rule suggested of increasing BAB by 1 every level rather than 2 every 2 levels. Wizards use the thief table. Everyone else uses the cleric table. This is reasonable.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I don't know what you mean.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I think part of the charm of the class is it's limited and flavorful weapons list. Generally, I prefer the 3e approach of keeping the limited and flavorful weapons list while granting bonus weapon choices/proficiencies from race. To the extent that I would expand the base list it would be to bo stick (representing here any short fighting stick or cane) and crossbow. Crossbow just feels more 'roguish' to me than slings. Elven thieves could also use short and long bows and dwarven thieves' hand and battle axes. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>It's not a bad idea as it helps rebalance the classes to the standard of Cavalier which otherwise should be banned.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>It would not at all be wrong nor would it be hard to implement to simply adjust the thieves table so that the revised 1st level thief had the same skill chances as the unrevised 5th level thief. Just skip the first 4 rows of the table. Throw in all the skills from Acrobat while you are at it for the very rare cases that parkour matters in the game and things start to get a little better for the poor thief player.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>If you actually follow the rules and don't allow 21 DEX PC's into your game, the two-handed fighting rules in 1e AD&D are quite balanced and one of the few things that rewards a high DEX combatant with no shield. You only at most get one additional attack a round - it DOES NOT double your attacks per round - and that second attack will generally be at a penalty, and further that second attack will generally be with a different weaker weapon. If you stick to the rules you get no Drizzt. You do however let a thief fight with a dagger in the offhand to make up for their otherwise weak fighting skills.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I don't agree with the reasoning. My own (back)stab at attempting to fix 1e saves can be found here: <a href="https://www.enworld.org/threads/converting-ad-d-saving-throws-to-stat-based-saves.696276/#post-8955753" target="_blank">https://www.enworld.org/threads/converting-ad-d-saving-throws-to-stat-based-saves.696276/#post-8955753</a></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Not really. It's the only thing thieves have going for them since they miss out on all the advantages of being a fighter and all the advantages of being a spell-caster.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Sure, that would go a little way toward removing the need for them to gain HD at a faster rate than other classes but hit point inflation is always one of my least favorite ways to balance things and I feel less well balanced than the current XP table where you aren't really leveling up significantly faster than other classes you just get to level 2-3 quicker.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Your game is so evolved from 1e AD&D that I have no basis of comparison. Longsword is already an option for thieves in 1e AD&D. Bottom of page 19, the fourth note to the table.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 9272248, member: 4937"] There isn't really any need for a large number of tables. Third edition effectively reduced it down to 3 tables. Fighters use the same table they did in 1e AD&D using the variant rule suggested of increasing BAB by 1 every level rather than 2 every 2 levels. Wizards use the thief table. Everyone else uses the cleric table. This is reasonable. I don't know what you mean. I think part of the charm of the class is it's limited and flavorful weapons list. Generally, I prefer the 3e approach of keeping the limited and flavorful weapons list while granting bonus weapon choices/proficiencies from race. To the extent that I would expand the base list it would be to bo stick (representing here any short fighting stick or cane) and crossbow. Crossbow just feels more 'roguish' to me than slings. Elven thieves could also use short and long bows and dwarven thieves' hand and battle axes. It's not a bad idea as it helps rebalance the classes to the standard of Cavalier which otherwise should be banned. It would not at all be wrong nor would it be hard to implement to simply adjust the thieves table so that the revised 1st level thief had the same skill chances as the unrevised 5th level thief. Just skip the first 4 rows of the table. Throw in all the skills from Acrobat while you are at it for the very rare cases that parkour matters in the game and things start to get a little better for the poor thief player. If you actually follow the rules and don't allow 21 DEX PC's into your game, the two-handed fighting rules in 1e AD&D are quite balanced and one of the few things that rewards a high DEX combatant with no shield. You only at most get one additional attack a round - it DOES NOT double your attacks per round - and that second attack will generally be at a penalty, and further that second attack will generally be with a different weaker weapon. If you stick to the rules you get no Drizzt. You do however let a thief fight with a dagger in the offhand to make up for their otherwise weak fighting skills. I don't agree with the reasoning. My own (back)stab at attempting to fix 1e saves can be found here: [URL]https://www.enworld.org/threads/converting-ad-d-saving-throws-to-stat-based-saves.696276/#post-8955753[/URL] Not really. It's the only thing thieves have going for them since they miss out on all the advantages of being a fighter and all the advantages of being a spell-caster. Sure, that would go a little way toward removing the need for them to gain HD at a faster rate than other classes but hit point inflation is always one of my least favorite ways to balance things and I feel less well balanced than the current XP table where you aren't really leveling up significantly faster than other classes you just get to level 2-3 quicker. Your game is so evolved from 1e AD&D that I have no basis of comparison. Longsword is already an option for thieves in 1e AD&D. Bottom of page 19, the fourth note to the table. [/QUOTE]
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AD&D players and referees, what do you think of ascending AC?
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