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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
AD&D Retroclone Design Goals
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<blockquote data-quote="DammitVictor" data-source="post: 9827981" data-attributes="member: 6750908"><p>Oh, I am not planning to. Just thinking out loud about what I'd like to see-- my WIP owes more to Code SNE and ICE than TSR and I'm only <em>vaguely hoping</em> it'll be of interest to the broader OSR community.</p><p></p><p>There's a lot of overlap between what I'm trying to do with my house system and what I'd do in a retroclone, though.</p><p></p><p>Starting with 2e <em>Player's Option</em> as the base:</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Simplified ability scores; B/X math, no subabilities, limited scaling. (Think ICE, not WotC.)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Merged and reconciled class list; all the core and "near core" classes would be <em> there</em> but not necessarily separate.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Classes and ancestries are customizable, but in a more restricted fashion. Class abilities are organized by <em>class group</em>, not by class.<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Ancestry abilities scale with level and level-up CP can be used to buy them after 1st.</li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Spellcasting would <em>milk </em>Chapter 6 of <em>Spells & Magic</em>, using those mechanics to have very different magic styles beyond spell lists.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Definitely have a look at combining 2e's optional XP rewards (by class) with HARP's quest rewards.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">WP and NWP rules are <em>in use</em>, but not for basic proficiencies; they're for more special and specialized skills.<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">This includes OA martial arts and DF martial arts.</li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Psionics is core.</li> </ul><p>[SPOILER="Excessive and Largely Pointless Details"]</p><p>I haven't actually worked on this <em>all that much </em>as a project for publication; most of this material represents homebrew work I did for my table between 1995 and 2000. I've revisited it a few times since getting back into old D&D in 2010 or so.</p><p></p><p>When I was running AD&D in high school, I used <em>Skills & Powers </em>and <em>Spells & Magic </em>to customize the race/class rules for <em>every campaign</em>.</p><p></p><p><strong>Ancestry & Class</strong></p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Core ancestries are PHB/S&P standard, plus goblin/hobgoblin/bugbear. <ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Hybrid ancestry is a human ancestral feature that can be selected/purchased.</li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Classes are organized into groups like in 2e, including the Psionic group.<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>Warrior: </strong>Cavalier (+Samurai), Soldier (Bushi), Swordsage, Swashbuckler (think PHBR 1&2), Ranger.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>Rogue: </strong>Thief, Bard, Assassin, Sapper</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>Mage: </strong>Wizard (diviner + sage), Sorcerer (Elementalist/Wu Jen), Magician (illusion/mentalism/dimension), Witch, Warlock.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>Priest: </strong>Cleric, Templar (Crusader + Sohei), Shaman (+Shukenja), Druid, Healer.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong>Psion: </strong>Mystic (Monk + egoist), Psychic (telepath + seer), Havoker (soulknife + PK). </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">"Paladin" is something Warriors & Priests can <em> become</em>; Assassins and Rangers are <strong><em>optional </em></strong>minor spellcasters.</li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Race/class restrictions are <em> loosened</em> but not removed entirely.<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Humans can multiclass <em> better</em> than other ancestries.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Some ancestries have <em>requirements </em>in addition to restrictions, like elves being warrior/mages before they can be /rogues or /priests.</li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Subraces are less of a thing and ancestral features are less standardized. I like to think my minor flavor changes are pretty cool.</li> </ul><p><strong>Martial Arts</strong></p><p></p><p>I have <strong><em>never </em></strong>made this work, but the goal here is for the OA/PHBR15 martial arts system to coexist with "unarmed" weapon mastery and (even) more fantastic abilities from <em>Dragon Fist </em>and <em>Flying Swordsmen. </em>Players would buy these abilities with CP, based on their class and level.</p><p></p><p><strong>Spellcasting</strong></p><p></p><p>Just... read Chapter Six of <em>Player's Option: Spells & Magic</em> and think about some of the alternatives to Vancian casting that have been developed since 3e. It's <strong><em>trivial </em></strong>to adapt those rules for Wizard or Sorcerer casting, 5e prepared casting, or even further extremes like Sha'ir- or Warmage-style casting.</p><p></p><p>Psionics uses the "spellcasting" rules for spell lists and spells per day, but different mechanics than mage and priest spells. All psions are <em>strictly </em>limited to their known spells.</p><p></p><p>Every spellcaster (class and individual) has Major access to some schools/spheres and Minor access to others. (Which determines spell point cost, not maximum spell level.) Each class has its own rules for known/prepared spells and fixed/free magick. Different classes might use some of the special spellcasting rules.</p><p></p><p>Mages and Psions have tighter restrictions on their spells but can poach from other classes in their groups. Priests are a lot freer with their class spells, but a lot more restricted outside of their class lists. Minor spellcasters get the worst of both worlds.</p><p>[/SPOILER]</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="DammitVictor, post: 9827981, member: 6750908"] Oh, I am not planning to. Just thinking out loud about what I'd like to see-- my WIP owes more to Code SNE and ICE than TSR and I'm only [I]vaguely hoping[/I] it'll be of interest to the broader OSR community. There's a lot of overlap between what I'm trying to do with my house system and what I'd do in a retroclone, though. Starting with 2e [I]Player's Option[/I] as the base: [LIST] [*]Simplified ability scores; B/X math, no subabilities, limited scaling. (Think ICE, not WotC.) [*]Merged and reconciled class list; all the core and "near core" classes would be [I] there[/I] but not necessarily separate. [*]Classes and ancestries are customizable, but in a more restricted fashion. Class abilities are organized by [I]class group[/I], not by class. [LIST] [*]Ancestry abilities scale with level and level-up CP can be used to buy them after 1st. [/LIST] [*]Spellcasting would [I]milk [/I]Chapter 6 of [I]Spells & Magic[/I], using those mechanics to have very different magic styles beyond spell lists. [*]Definitely have a look at combining 2e's optional XP rewards (by class) with HARP's quest rewards. [*]WP and NWP rules are [I]in use[/I], but not for basic proficiencies; they're for more special and specialized skills. [LIST] [*]This includes OA martial arts and DF martial arts. [/LIST] [*]Psionics is core. [/LIST] [SPOILER="Excessive and Largely Pointless Details"] I haven't actually worked on this [I]all that much [/I]as a project for publication; most of this material represents homebrew work I did for my table between 1995 and 2000. I've revisited it a few times since getting back into old D&D in 2010 or so. When I was running AD&D in high school, I used [I]Skills & Powers [/I]and [I]Spells & Magic [/I]to customize the race/class rules for [I]every campaign[/I]. [B]Ancestry & Class[/B] [LIST] [*]Core ancestries are PHB/S&P standard, plus goblin/hobgoblin/bugbear. [LIST] [*]Hybrid ancestry is a human ancestral feature that can be selected/purchased. [/LIST] [*]Classes are organized into groups like in 2e, including the Psionic group. [LIST] [*][B]Warrior: [/B]Cavalier (+Samurai), Soldier (Bushi), Swordsage, Swashbuckler (think PHBR 1&2), Ranger. [*][B]Rogue: [/B]Thief, Bard, Assassin, Sapper [*][B]Mage: [/B]Wizard (diviner + sage), Sorcerer (Elementalist/Wu Jen), Magician (illusion/mentalism/dimension), Witch, Warlock. [*][B]Priest: [/B]Cleric, Templar (Crusader + Sohei), Shaman (+Shukenja), Druid, Healer. [*][B]Psion: [/B]Mystic (Monk + egoist), Psychic (telepath + seer), Havoker (soulknife + PK). [*]"Paladin" is something Warriors & Priests can [I] become[/I]; Assassins and Rangers are [B][I]optional [/I][/B]minor spellcasters. [/LIST] [*]Race/class restrictions are [I] loosened[/I] but not removed entirely. [LIST] [*]Humans can multiclass [I] better[/I] than other ancestries. [*]Some ancestries have [I]requirements [/I]in addition to restrictions, like elves being warrior/mages before they can be /rogues or /priests. [/LIST] [*]Subraces are less of a thing and ancestral features are less standardized. I like to think my minor flavor changes are pretty cool. [/LIST] [B]Martial Arts[/B] I have [B][I]never [/I][/B]made this work, but the goal here is for the OA/PHBR15 martial arts system to coexist with "unarmed" weapon mastery and (even) more fantastic abilities from [I]Dragon Fist [/I]and [I]Flying Swordsmen. [/I]Players would buy these abilities with CP, based on their class and level. [B]Spellcasting[/B] Just... read Chapter Six of [I]Player's Option: Spells & Magic[/I] and think about some of the alternatives to Vancian casting that have been developed since 3e. It's [B][I]trivial [/I][/B]to adapt those rules for Wizard or Sorcerer casting, 5e prepared casting, or even further extremes like Sha'ir- or Warmage-style casting. Psionics uses the "spellcasting" rules for spell lists and spells per day, but different mechanics than mage and priest spells. All psions are [I]strictly [/I]limited to their known spells. Every spellcaster (class and individual) has Major access to some schools/spheres and Minor access to others. (Which determines spell point cost, not maximum spell level.) Each class has its own rules for known/prepared spells and fixed/free magick. Different classes might use some of the special spellcasting rules. Mages and Psions have tighter restrictions on their spells but can poach from other classes in their groups. Priests are a lot freer with their class spells, but a lot more restricted outside of their class lists. Minor spellcasters get the worst of both worlds. [/SPOILER] [/QUOTE]
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