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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Orius" data-source="post: 1798628" data-attributes="member: 8863">I'll agree that was one of the biggest flws of the 2e system, the fact that optional stuff was considered completely optional, and thus threw in all sorts of imbalances.      Ruleswise, the 2e wasn't horribly bad overall, but there were some gaping problems.      <ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Exceptional Strength. This was an old 1e or earlier relic that should have been thrown out, since 2e had stat tables that went to 25. And ES was only available to warriors so there was a whole can of worms about what happened when non-warriors boosted Str past 18. PO made it even worse with subabilites that let a character with a 17 Strength bump Muscle to 19, thus bypassing the execptional categories, and about half a dozen ranks on the Strength tables.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Wacky multi/demi-classing rules. Why could only demihumans multi, and why could only humans demiclass? Made no sense. Even worse was the silliness about how you couldn't use class abilities when you took a new class until you hit a specific number of XPs.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Breaking the weapon specialization rule. Weapon specialization was intended to be a single-class fighter only perk, but optional material quickly (starting with the Fighter's Handbook) let non multi-classed fighters, then all warriors then ANYONE who damn well pleased take weapon spec. Of course, this took from the fighter the only real benefit it had in the system.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Balance that assumed the classic 3d6 system. Paladins, rangers and bards were definitely more powerful than than the standard 4 classes. This was balanced by stringent ability score requirements which made the classes rare if character were rolled up with the traditional 3d6 method. However, that was a fairly underused system for rolling scores, and it's not surprising, given that it limited the choices players had when creating characters.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The core proficiency system. Definitely inferior compared to PO proficiencies and 3.xe skills. Proficiencies were really little more than specific ability checks with occasional modifiers tacked on, and they was little to chance to improve proficiencies.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Alignments such as chaotic stupid.  Alignments were badly interpreted in 2e, especially the <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />-for-tat balance-seeking crap of true neutral, or the completely random behavior patterns of chaotic neutral. (Smileys?  What the hell?  CONTEXT, people!  Sheesh! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />)</li> </ul>Those are the only real problems I have with the 2e rules as written.   I also never liked the cross-referencing. Having the monster from outside the MM was alright, provided the adventure or whatever gave the DM enough stats to use the encounter or whatever. An occasional spell from a source like ToM didn't matter too much either, since another spell could simply be substituted (and pretty much all adventures and suppliments said to substitute anyway). But stuff that pretty much required the DM to have a suppliment or something that was OOP, and couldn't be easily worked around was annoying.</blockquote>

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