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AD&D-style Illithid/Dragon Magic Resistance in 5E
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<blockquote data-quote="steeldragons" data-source="post: 6729830" data-attributes="member: 92511"><p>You are quite right. Upon a review of the material, what I was taking as "resistance" is, in fact, listed as "Resilience" (e.g. Dwarf and Stout) offering advantage <em>and </em>damage resistance.</p><p></p><p>Things that offer damage resistance are called "resistance", as per the dragonborn resistance to breath weapon damage type or tiefling fire resistance...both of which are called "<Something> Resistance." Traits that offer advantage on saves are, <em>invariably </em>on the player's side, called something else: <em>Fey Ancestry, Gnome Cunning,</em> and the like.</p><p></p><p>The only exception here, that I can find, is "Magic Resistance" (the topic of the thread). In which it only offers advantage to saves (and, as best I can tell, is only granted to Fey, Demons, Devils, Slaadi, the Helmed Horror, and the Death Knight) and nothing about the damage...unlike <em>Resistance</em> in every other place the term appears...including the monsters' stat blocks.</p><p></p><p>"Legendary Resistance" is, of course, something completely else and unrelated, mechanically, neither advantage nor damage resistance, but "auto-save" whatever the effect...and it's "Legendary", I'm not gonna argue with it. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /> </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>We are, apparently, both wrong here. A resistance to fire damage accompanied with advantage against fire saves, would properly be termed (according to 5e) "Fire Resilience," as the only time "Resistance" is taken to mean advantage on saves is with Magic. </p><p></p><p>So, correctly terming what I was proposing in my original post would/should be called "Magic <em>Resilience</em>." Mia culpa.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>This is so as written. Yes. However the topic at hand and intention of the thread is to say "How do I get a AD&D type/feel for 5e Magic Resistance?"</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Correct and not, simultaneously, again. Because damage resistances are listed by "damage type" and the source of the type is not taken into consideration. The simplicity model of 5e, I would guess, avoiding fiddliness (e.g. "Is it magic fire or non-magic fire?") is responsible for this imminently sensible approach.</p><p></p><p>Thus, a creature such as the Specter, that is resistance to practically every damage type, immune to others, and immune to nearly all condition types, would/could reasonably be considered, within the fiction, virtually immune to all <em>magic</em> (along with much more). Throwing acid, fire, lightning, etc...etc... is only ever going to be half damage, at best. So, in reality/actuality, in both game and narrative terms, while not listed as "magic resistance" there are many many things that are resistant (in greater or lesser degrees) to magic via the "Damage Resistances" in their stat block...not so "almost unheard of."</p><p></p><p>[Honestly, as a complete aside, just noticing the Specters and Wraiths have the longest lists of resistances/immunities of any creature I can find. Resulting in, I am sure, "Magic Resistance" not being among their traits. Makes sense, I guess. Interesting, at least. Not really what I would expect.]</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>From another angle, it makes <em>tons</em> of sense, and a nearly unbeatable creature, in a "typical" D&D world. Additionally, very good for low-/no-magic/"gritty" worlds/play. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>This is a bit of binary ad absurdum. A "greataxe" is still going to do d12 damage, magical or not. A "stick", at best and only if one were to deem it equivalent to a "club", is getting you no more than d4. Whether a creature is immune or resistant to any magic add-ons, it's not going to negate the weapon damage. [EDIT to add: If the creature is<em> also</em> resistant to non-magic weapon damage, then, yeah, that'll be a tough fight/distinct disadvantage. And if it's <em>immune</em> to non-magical weapon damage, you're just totally screwed/better run fast and run far! /edit]</p><p> </p><p></p><p></p><p>No, I suppose not. Nor you, it seems. Thankfully, with a bit of common sense and rulings not rules, it can be for both of us. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p><strong>TL;DR</strong> If "Magic Resistance" is the only use of the term "resistance" that doesn't halve damage...that's a flaw/mistake in the terminology. Halving the damage is a perfectly reasonable thing to do to bring the term in line with how it's used everywhere else in the game and, yes, it also makes the monsters that have it a good bit more dangerous/tough to beat...that's a feature not a bug. Especially in a game that was designed with every-blessed-character-and-its-mother having spells.</p><p></p><p>And, just to reiterate, I think "DM rolls to beat DC10 + CR [maximum 19] to see if a given spell takes effect on the creature. Round down, for things with fractional CR. " is not, at all, complex...</p><p></p><p>If you want to go<em> very</em> 1e and add a bit more complexity, say "+/-5% (1 point on the d20) per level of caster above/below level X" [where X=10, would be my best guess].</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="steeldragons, post: 6729830, member: 92511"] You are quite right. Upon a review of the material, what I was taking as "resistance" is, in fact, listed as "Resilience" (e.g. Dwarf and Stout) offering advantage [I]and [/I]damage resistance. Things that offer damage resistance are called "resistance", as per the dragonborn resistance to breath weapon damage type or tiefling fire resistance...both of which are called "<Something> Resistance." Traits that offer advantage on saves are, [I]invariably [/I]on the player's side, called something else: [I]Fey Ancestry, Gnome Cunning,[/I] and the like. The only exception here, that I can find, is "Magic Resistance" (the topic of the thread). In which it only offers advantage to saves (and, as best I can tell, is only granted to Fey, Demons, Devils, Slaadi, the Helmed Horror, and the Death Knight) and nothing about the damage...unlike [I]Resistance[/I] in every other place the term appears...including the monsters' stat blocks. "Legendary Resistance" is, of course, something completely else and unrelated, mechanically, neither advantage nor damage resistance, but "auto-save" whatever the effect...and it's "Legendary", I'm not gonna argue with it. ;) We are, apparently, both wrong here. A resistance to fire damage accompanied with advantage against fire saves, would properly be termed (according to 5e) "Fire Resilience," as the only time "Resistance" is taken to mean advantage on saves is with Magic. So, correctly terming what I was proposing in my original post would/should be called "Magic [I]Resilience[/I]." Mia culpa. This is so as written. Yes. However the topic at hand and intention of the thread is to say "How do I get a AD&D type/feel for 5e Magic Resistance?" Correct and not, simultaneously, again. Because damage resistances are listed by "damage type" and the source of the type is not taken into consideration. The simplicity model of 5e, I would guess, avoiding fiddliness (e.g. "Is it magic fire or non-magic fire?") is responsible for this imminently sensible approach. Thus, a creature such as the Specter, that is resistance to practically every damage type, immune to others, and immune to nearly all condition types, would/could reasonably be considered, within the fiction, virtually immune to all [I]magic[/I] (along with much more). Throwing acid, fire, lightning, etc...etc... is only ever going to be half damage, at best. So, in reality/actuality, in both game and narrative terms, while not listed as "magic resistance" there are many many things that are resistant (in greater or lesser degrees) to magic via the "Damage Resistances" in their stat block...not so "almost unheard of." [Honestly, as a complete aside, just noticing the Specters and Wraiths have the longest lists of resistances/immunities of any creature I can find. Resulting in, I am sure, "Magic Resistance" not being among their traits. Makes sense, I guess. Interesting, at least. Not really what I would expect.] From another angle, it makes [I]tons[/I] of sense, and a nearly unbeatable creature, in a "typical" D&D world. Additionally, very good for low-/no-magic/"gritty" worlds/play. This is a bit of binary ad absurdum. A "greataxe" is still going to do d12 damage, magical or not. A "stick", at best and only if one were to deem it equivalent to a "club", is getting you no more than d4. Whether a creature is immune or resistant to any magic add-ons, it's not going to negate the weapon damage. [EDIT to add: If the creature is[I] also[/I] resistant to non-magic weapon damage, then, yeah, that'll be a tough fight/distinct disadvantage. And if it's [I]immune[/I] to non-magical weapon damage, you're just totally screwed/better run fast and run far! /edit] No, I suppose not. Nor you, it seems. Thankfully, with a bit of common sense and rulings not rules, it can be for both of us. :) [B]TL;DR[/B] If "Magic Resistance" is the only use of the term "resistance" that doesn't halve damage...that's a flaw/mistake in the terminology. Halving the damage is a perfectly reasonable thing to do to bring the term in line with how it's used everywhere else in the game and, yes, it also makes the monsters that have it a good bit more dangerous/tough to beat...that's a feature not a bug. Especially in a game that was designed with every-blessed-character-and-its-mother having spells. And, just to reiterate, I think "DM rolls to beat DC10 + CR [maximum 19] to see if a given spell takes effect on the creature. Round down, for things with fractional CR. " is not, at all, complex... If you want to go[I] very[/I] 1e and add a bit more complexity, say "+/-5% (1 point on the d20) per level of caster above/below level X" [where X=10, would be my best guess]. [/QUOTE]
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