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Message: <blockquote data-quote="lumin" data-source="post: 5549880" data-attributes="member: 59785">Pawsplay:I completely understand the point you're trying to make.  Yes, Gygax made suggestions, as you rightly quote, describing instances where the DM will have to referee situations not prescribed on an already-defined table, but you're missing my point.Let me phrase it a different way.  If we could sum up 3rd Edition's D20 rule system in one sentence, what would it be?  I think it would go something like this: "Roll a D20 and compare it to the DM's target DC for success or failure."  Think about that for a moment.  This is the essence of modern gaming.  Sure, there are some tables that give you IDEAS of how to come up with a DC for an encounter, but most of the time, these are simply suggestions.  They are completely variable and depend heavily on circumstances.Now, how would we sum up 1st Edition's rule system in one sentence?  "Roll a <whatever dice the table says to use at the moment> and compare it to <whatever target the table says to use at the moment> for success or failure."I'm glad you quoted this text from the DMG, as it completely backs up my point.  Now take careful note of what Gygax says here:1. Naturally, everything possible cannot be included in the whole of this work.What exactly is Gygax saying here?  He's saying that the AD&D system is STRICT.  In other words, he's saying that we should adhere to the rules stated in the book as much as possible.  Only, when the tables do not include a rule for something, should we break from it.2. There will be times in which the rules do not cover a specific action that a player will attempt.  In such situations...Now again, what is Gygax saying here?  He's saying that we need to follow the rules as much as possible for every action that happens in the game.  He's saying that in the "times" that there is no rule, the DM will have to make up his own.Here's the crux at what I'm getting at:  In AD&D "winging-it" is the EXCEPTION to the rule, NOT the rule itself.  In 3rd Edition "winging-it" (see my sentence above) is the way the game is played, the tables for obtaining target DC's are -suggestions- and -help- when "winging-it" becomes difficult.AD&D and 3rd Edition are diametrically opposite in their approaches to encounter targets. For AD&D, making things up is the exception (as Gygax so states above).  For 3E, consulting "support" DC tables is the exception.I think a lot of people have been fed a load of BS when it comes to understanding what old-school gaming really was about.  I know I was.  I was absolutely shocked when I first started reading the PHB and DMG.  All these years I was fed the myth that AD&D was about throwing out all the rules and just making up your own - "just free-wheel it however you like".  Instead, what I found were pages and pages of hard-nosed rules, where each situation had to be carefully adjudicated using a very specific table.  There was no SIEGE engine, there was no "D20 + mod vs DC" system, there was no simple, overarching rule for inventing DCs.  The rules were hard and very, very rigid.For those people who simply "free-wheeled" AD&D back in the 80s-90s, I think perhaps they simply didn't understand the spirit and rules of the game, and took shortcuts instead.</blockquote>

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