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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
AD&D (yes, 2e too) players and referees, what do you think of rolling under for ability and NWP checks?
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<blockquote data-quote="Willie the Duck" data-source="post: 9283746" data-attributes="member: 6799660"><p>Interesting. Do you have any examples? Slow descent into spot checks notwithstanding*, did you really see it take over the game? <em><span style="font-size: 12px">*I'm concerned with what was there in 1e and 2e, not what it might have become in 3e</span></em></p><p></p><p>My impression was that the non-weapon proficiency/skill system was a bunch of vestigial heat and light (and certainly page count in 2e) with out a lot of flame. There weren't any 'spot' style NWPs. Most being niche abilities like 'juggling' or giving you back the horse riding and reading/writing abilities you had before. The weapon/armor/bow-making skills let you fashion normal equipment -- very slowly and with setup equipment with costs you likely never would recoup. Healing (even with Herbalism as well) provided healing at a fraction of the speed of curative magic (and were only efficiently available to classes which already had said magic). Surviving in the wilderness was an amalgam of 5-13 NWPs*, costing 7-15 slots** ; and even then was specifically called out as being a poor replacement for proper equipment planning*** and following maps. </p><p><em><span style="font-size: 12px">*direction sense, fire building, survival, tracking, and weather sense; possibly also animal handling, animal lore, animal training, fishing, hunting, mountaineering, rope use, and set snare</span></em></p><p><em><span style="font-size: 12px">**more if you want survival for more than 1 of 6 terrain types, potentially adding 10 more slots to the cost</span></em></p><p><em><span style="font-size: 12px">***"The survival skill in no way releases the player characters from the hardship and horrors of being lost in the wilderness. At best it alleviates a small portion of the suffering. The food found is barely adequate, and water is discovered in miniscule amounts. It is still quite possible for a character with survival knowledge to die in the wilderness. Indeed, the little knowledge the character has may lead to.overconfidence and doom"</span></em></p><p></p><p>All in all, my impression was that the system, in the end, didn't really <u>do</u> all that much. It just sat there taking up up page count and making false distinctions between 2e kits and such. In play, to, I remember a whole lot of futzing over picking nwps at character creation (often as a way of theme-definition for a specific character), but then they didn't really see a whole lot of use once actual play started.</p><p></p><p>All of which is just my take and experience, YMMV, etc.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Willie the Duck, post: 9283746, member: 6799660"] Interesting. Do you have any examples? Slow descent into spot checks notwithstanding*, did you really see it take over the game? [I][SIZE=3]*I'm concerned with what was there in 1e and 2e, not what it might have become in 3e[/SIZE][/I] My impression was that the non-weapon proficiency/skill system was a bunch of vestigial heat and light (and certainly page count in 2e) with out a lot of flame. There weren't any 'spot' style NWPs. Most being niche abilities like 'juggling' or giving you back the horse riding and reading/writing abilities you had before. The weapon/armor/bow-making skills let you fashion normal equipment -- very slowly and with setup equipment with costs you likely never would recoup. Healing (even with Herbalism as well) provided healing at a fraction of the speed of curative magic (and were only efficiently available to classes which already had said magic). Surviving in the wilderness was an amalgam of 5-13 NWPs*, costing 7-15 slots** ; and even then was specifically called out as being a poor replacement for proper equipment planning*** and following maps. [I][SIZE=3]*direction sense, fire building, survival, tracking, and weather sense; possibly also animal handling, animal lore, animal training, fishing, hunting, mountaineering, rope use, and set snare **more if you want survival for more than 1 of 6 terrain types, potentially adding 10 more slots to the cost ***"The survival skill in no way releases the player characters from the hardship and horrors of being lost in the wilderness. At best it alleviates a small portion of the suffering. The food found is barely adequate, and water is discovered in miniscule amounts. It is still quite possible for a character with survival knowledge to die in the wilderness. Indeed, the little knowledge the character has may lead to.overconfidence and doom"[/SIZE][/I] All in all, my impression was that the system, in the end, didn't really [U]do[/U] all that much. It just sat there taking up up page count and making false distinctions between 2e kits and such. In play, to, I remember a whole lot of futzing over picking nwps at character creation (often as a way of theme-definition for a specific character), but then they didn't really see a whole lot of use once actual play started. All of which is just my take and experience, YMMV, etc. [/QUOTE]
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AD&D (yes, 2e too) players and referees, what do you think of rolling under for ability and NWP checks?
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