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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
AD&D (yes, 2e too) players and referees, what do you think of rolling under for ability and NWP checks?
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<blockquote data-quote="Voadam" data-source="post: 9283979" data-attributes="member: 2209"><p>Feat type bonus abilities were there since the introduction of non-weapon proficiencies and martial arts in <a href="https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/17334/oriental-adventures-1e?affiliate_id=17596" target="_blank">Oriental Adventures</a>. I would not say they were on a path of descent to the feat system, I would say picking up blindfighting is pretty much equivalent in AD&D and 3e. 3e's big development in this arena was splitting the skill versus specific minor ability features into two distinct categories of abilities and making skills fairly comprehensive with rules for people who specifically did not take them.</p><p></p><p>I personally mostly looked for the feat type NWPs that gave game abilities I found useful. I found the wilderness survival ones required too many and were too fiddly to bother with and a lot of the skill type ones were just background flavor that I felt were handled fine by the secondary skill system or just roleplaying a chosen character concept instead.</p><p></p><p>We used NWPs in my AD&D game and as a DM I eventually became disillusioned with the roll under stat mechanic and the mechanical importance it placed on your unbalanced random character generation rolls that stuck with you forever and whether you were going with 3d6 in order or 1e Unearthed Arcana human rolls or various methods in the 2e PH or the PO systems.</p><p></p><p>For my groups it was not a big deal in effect, healing for example allowed a little quicker down time healing and a little (d3 hp?) occasional first aid for wounds so it stretched the cure lights further and it might take four days instead of six to heal the whole party after a big fight. Magical healing was still the big core of recovery.</p><p></p><p>I think taking NWPs to flesh out your character conceptually a little then not sweating them was a decent way to approach them, they were not a hugely big deal so spending your NWP on agriculture to say you had a background as an assistant pig-keeper did not really handicap most characters even though none of the mechanics were likely to ever come up and it cost you slots that could go to other things.</p><p></p><p>That was a suboptimal mechanical trap option for the most part in my opinion. You have to hit AC 0 with the rogue oriented juggling NWP, and if you miss you automatically take the damage. A 20th level 2e rogue has a THAC0 of 11 so a 50/50 shot of taking auto damage.</p><p></p><p>I was pouring proficiencies into martial arts abilities for my characters since OA. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p><a href="https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/16885/phbr1-the-complete-fighter-s-handbook-2e?affiliate_id=17596" target="_blank">Complete Fighter</a> style specializations just added more fun options in that regard.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Voadam, post: 9283979, member: 2209"] Feat type bonus abilities were there since the introduction of non-weapon proficiencies and martial arts in [URL='https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/17334/oriental-adventures-1e?affiliate_id=17596']Oriental Adventures[/URL]. I would not say they were on a path of descent to the feat system, I would say picking up blindfighting is pretty much equivalent in AD&D and 3e. 3e's big development in this arena was splitting the skill versus specific minor ability features into two distinct categories of abilities and making skills fairly comprehensive with rules for people who specifically did not take them. I personally mostly looked for the feat type NWPs that gave game abilities I found useful. I found the wilderness survival ones required too many and were too fiddly to bother with and a lot of the skill type ones were just background flavor that I felt were handled fine by the secondary skill system or just roleplaying a chosen character concept instead. We used NWPs in my AD&D game and as a DM I eventually became disillusioned with the roll under stat mechanic and the mechanical importance it placed on your unbalanced random character generation rolls that stuck with you forever and whether you were going with 3d6 in order or 1e Unearthed Arcana human rolls or various methods in the 2e PH or the PO systems. For my groups it was not a big deal in effect, healing for example allowed a little quicker down time healing and a little (d3 hp?) occasional first aid for wounds so it stretched the cure lights further and it might take four days instead of six to heal the whole party after a big fight. Magical healing was still the big core of recovery. I think taking NWPs to flesh out your character conceptually a little then not sweating them was a decent way to approach them, they were not a hugely big deal so spending your NWP on agriculture to say you had a background as an assistant pig-keeper did not really handicap most characters even though none of the mechanics were likely to ever come up and it cost you slots that could go to other things. That was a suboptimal mechanical trap option for the most part in my opinion. You have to hit AC 0 with the rogue oriented juggling NWP, and if you miss you automatically take the damage. A 20th level 2e rogue has a THAC0 of 11 so a 50/50 shot of taking auto damage.[I][/I] I was pouring proficiencies into martial arts abilities for my characters since OA. :) [URL='https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/16885/phbr1-the-complete-fighter-s-handbook-2e?affiliate_id=17596']Complete Fighter[/URL] style specializations just added more fun options in that regard. [/QUOTE]
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AD&D (yes, 2e too) players and referees, what do you think of rolling under for ability and NWP checks?
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